demountable front wheels
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MCobb
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demountable front wheels
I bought a 1915/16 roadster last year and am learning on it. It has demountable rims on the rear but not on the front. One of the front wheels is very loose. I would like to buy two demountable front wheels & rims for it. mcobb@indak or text 8472541655
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MCobb
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Re: demountable front wheels
I bought a 1915/16 roadster last year and am learning on it. It has demountable rims on the rear but not on the front. One of the front wheels is very loose. I would like to buy two demountable front wheels & rims for it. mcobb@indak or text 8472541655
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Allan
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Re: demountable front wheels
Martin, there are variations in the wheels, which can make matching rims to suit them problematical. It would be best to post photos of your rear wheels so sellers know if what they have will be a match. Best to show details of the 4 mounting bolts/lugs, and one of the wheel without the rim mounted on it so the felloe profile can be seen.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
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J1MGOLDEN
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Re: demountable front wheels
Some of the rims have a clue on the lug that attaches the rim to the wheel.
The early Firestone rim had five lugs, but the later ones only have four lugs.
Removing the rim and looking at the split area method of attachment is a good clue.
This is the later Firestone rim that did not have their name on the lug.
The early Firestone rim had five lugs, but the later ones only have four lugs.
Removing the rim and looking at the split area method of attachment is a good clue.
This is the later Firestone rim that did not have their name on the lug.
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J1MGOLDEN
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Re: demountable front wheels
CAUTION: The same size rims for other car makes may look the same, but have the tub valve farther away from the rim split.
The first New Old Stock Rims I bought were the exact same size, but had the valve hole half way around.
I later learned they were Chevrolet rims!
That also explained the reason one of my wheels had two rim holes!
The first New Old Stock Rims I bought were the exact same size, but had the valve hole half way around.
I later learned they were Chevrolet rims!
That also explained the reason one of my wheels had two rim holes!
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Russ T Fender
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Re: demountable front wheels
Does he have split rims? Would think not.
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TWrenn
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Re: demountable front wheels
That's what I was thinking too!
Plus, it really shouldn't even have demountables either but I sure do appreciate the reasoning behind having them. If he's talking "loose" meaning spokes, that's an easy fix. Called "Stutzmans"!
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MCobb
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Re: demountable front wheels
My loose front wheel spokes seem OK but the rim is not tight to the fellow. One of the bolts (rivets?) in felloe has backed out (toward the center of the wheel) by about 1/4 inch.
If I find 30x3.0 front wheels and rims of the same make as my demountable 30x3.5 rear wheels, will the rims fit either wheel? In other words can I carry just one rim with tire to use as a temporary spare for front or rear?
If I find 30x3.0 front wheels and rims of the same make as my demountable 30x3.5 rear wheels, will the rims fit either wheel? In other words can I carry just one rim with tire to use as a temporary spare for front or rear?
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Russ T Fender
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Re: demountable front wheels
You can put 30x3-1/2 demountables of the same style on the front so you will only need one spare mounted on a matching rim. To do that you need new wheels and rims in the front that match what you have in the rear and since the wheels you have in front are 30x3 you will also need new tires. What you want is 30X3-1/2 wheels and rims all around. That's not correct for your car but lots of people have done that to be able to carry a usable spare instead of having to repair a tire on the road and carry two different spare tires and tubes.
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Oldav8tor
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Re: demountable front wheels
Hubs are readily available, and felloes can be found. Sometimes the outer part of the hub will be "expanded" by being beat on too many times and won't let you screw a hubcap on. Felloes can sometimes be out of round or flattened by being rolled on without rims and tires installed. Buy from someone who knows what to watch out for. Originally your car had 30 x 3 wheels in the front and 30 x 3.5 in the back. When people converted to demountable wheels "back in the day" they usually went with 30 x 3.5's all around. If you can track down some decent felloes like what you've got on the rear and some hubs, there are some good wheel rebuilders that can make wheels for you. Stutzman in Baltic, Ohio is probably the closest. I had a couple of wheels made up in that manner.
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
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1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor
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Allan
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Re: demountable front wheels
Others have pointed out that you need to match the front wheels to the back ones. We need to see what you have on the back to tell you what you need on the front. Photos will help. Without them, we are all left making general comments which may or may not be of help. Already there have been posts of photos of 21" split rims, and mention of Chev rims. and accessory Firestone 5 lug wheels.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
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MCobb
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Re: demountable front wheels
I've attached a photo of my rear wheel lug. The nut is tapered. The felloe has a "louver" that is not being used - do I have a mismatch of parts? This seems to work OK. Any advice will be appreciated!
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Tadpole
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Re: demountable front wheels
Mr. Cobb,
To me, that felloe looks a lot like Chevrolet. That's how my '27 one-ton is made. They have a square clamp that rests on that raised edge.
To me, that felloe looks a lot like Chevrolet. That's how my '27 one-ton is made. They have a square clamp that rests on that raised edge.
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RajoRacer
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Re: demountable front wheels
It's a Model T wheel - '21 or '22 - used a separate lug with a rim nut shaped like a top hat.
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Scott_Conger
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Re: demountable front wheels
Martin
photos are worth 1000 words! It looks like you have a FORD or Hayes rim on a Kelsey wheel. Happens a lot, but not the best combo for the long term as they are not really made for each other even though they may appear to fit, they don't fit that well.
You're starting with mismatched wheels/rims...so your going to want to find rims which match your wheels, and then purchase a set of rims/wheels for the front. This way everything will match.
Alternately, if your rear rims are in GOOD CONDITION, and the spokes on the wheels are fair/poor, if you remotely think you want to respoke the rears, then perhaps you want to respoke and REPLACE those felloes with Hayes Felloes, keep your rims, and then find matching wheels/rims for the front
This plan may be more easily done, because it seems to me that GOOD RIMS are harder to find than GOOD FELLOES, so perhaps keeping your rear rims would be the way to go rather than keeping your rear felloes. The point being, get your rears up to snuff (whatever that means to you) and then work to make a matching set on the front. Clear as mud?
Forum Member Mark Strange did a marvelous job with photos to show a series of correct/incorrect combinations of wheels/rims...to see correct rims on correct wheels, and wrong rims on wheels, take a peek here for info: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1434340728
photos are worth 1000 words! It looks like you have a FORD or Hayes rim on a Kelsey wheel. Happens a lot, but not the best combo for the long term as they are not really made for each other even though they may appear to fit, they don't fit that well.
You're starting with mismatched wheels/rims...so your going to want to find rims which match your wheels, and then purchase a set of rims/wheels for the front. This way everything will match.
Alternately, if your rear rims are in GOOD CONDITION, and the spokes on the wheels are fair/poor, if you remotely think you want to respoke the rears, then perhaps you want to respoke and REPLACE those felloes with Hayes Felloes, keep your rims, and then find matching wheels/rims for the front
This plan may be more easily done, because it seems to me that GOOD RIMS are harder to find than GOOD FELLOES, so perhaps keeping your rear rims would be the way to go rather than keeping your rear felloes. The point being, get your rears up to snuff (whatever that means to you) and then work to make a matching set on the front. Clear as mud?
Forum Member Mark Strange did a marvelous job with photos to show a series of correct/incorrect combinations of wheels/rims...to see correct rims on correct wheels, and wrong rims on wheels, take a peek here for info: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1434340728
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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MCobb
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Re: demountable front wheels
Thanks to all for the education! I will do some research to determine what I have, then start looking for parts.
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ChrisB
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Re: demountable front wheels
That red felloe is a Kelsey loose lug wheel, which is what I have on our 23 Coupe.
Here is a link to a wheel discussion with a lot of info, maybe more than you want!
Chris
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18143
Here is a link to a wheel discussion with a lot of info, maybe more than you want!
Chris
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18143
Chris Brancaccio
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MTFCA Webmaster
MTFCA Forum Admin
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Allan
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Re: demountable front wheels
Thanks for the photo. Chris has nailed the felloe. It is a Kelsey loose lug item, which takes a U shaped lug and the top hat nut mentioned in a previous post. Both nut and lug are available from Langs.
However, the rim with lugs is not a match for that wheel. Only Ford lugged rims will bolt up to that felloe. Hayes rims with the foot on the lug would need to have a depression in the felloe for the foot, or the foot of the lug would need to be ground back. None of the lugged rims actually fit as designed, by wedging on the inner land on the felloe. Felloes for lugged rims have a wider land on the inside, onto which the rim is wedged. The lug bolts are there just to maintain this wedging effect. That Kelsey felloe does not have the wider inside land. The four lug bots and a Ford lugged rim will work, so long as the bolts are kept tight.
Our Canadian sourced cars used Kelsey loose lugged wheels right up to the late 1925 models, so they are more common here. In the USA, lugged wheels were introduced earlier, and so are more common. You may find it easier to find a whole set these rather than a pair of Kelsey fronts. It should also mean that lugged rims should be more plentiful. However, good used rims are difficult to find. The good news is that both loose lug rims and fixed lug rims are available new. The choice is yours. You will have in the vicinity of $400 worth of tyre and tube on each corner, so new rims are a good investment to protect these.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
However, the rim with lugs is not a match for that wheel. Only Ford lugged rims will bolt up to that felloe. Hayes rims with the foot on the lug would need to have a depression in the felloe for the foot, or the foot of the lug would need to be ground back. None of the lugged rims actually fit as designed, by wedging on the inner land on the felloe. Felloes for lugged rims have a wider land on the inside, onto which the rim is wedged. The lug bolts are there just to maintain this wedging effect. That Kelsey felloe does not have the wider inside land. The four lug bots and a Ford lugged rim will work, so long as the bolts are kept tight.
Our Canadian sourced cars used Kelsey loose lugged wheels right up to the late 1925 models, so they are more common here. In the USA, lugged wheels were introduced earlier, and so are more common. You may find it easier to find a whole set these rather than a pair of Kelsey fronts. It should also mean that lugged rims should be more plentiful. However, good used rims are difficult to find. The good news is that both loose lug rims and fixed lug rims are available new. The choice is yours. You will have in the vicinity of $400 worth of tyre and tube on each corner, so new rims are a good investment to protect these.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
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Scott_Conger
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Re: demountable front wheels
Allan - or anyone
I recently looked for modern (new) "Hayes" style rims in the US and came up empty handed. I keep reading where they are available. Where did I NOT look? The only new rims I could find, anywhere, were clincher non-demountables.
I lucked into 4 very nice originals, and no longer am in the market, but for others, where are these new ones I'm hearing about? Lots of searching, but never came close to scoring new rims
I recently looked for modern (new) "Hayes" style rims in the US and came up empty handed. I keep reading where they are available. Where did I NOT look? The only new rims I could find, anywhere, were clincher non-demountables.
I lucked into 4 very nice originals, and no longer am in the market, but for others, where are these new ones I'm hearing about? Lots of searching, but never came close to scoring new rims
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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Allan
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Re: demountable front wheels
Steve Hood at Vintage Rims, Australia is your man. I know he does BE rims with lugs, and excellent quality they are. I do not know if he makes them with the Hayes type lugs with the foot. There is really no need for this variation, as the Ford style lugged rims will do the same job. The problem only comes up when trying to fit Hayes lugged rims to other than Hayes felloes.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
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Scott_Conger
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Re: demountable front wheels
Thank you Allan
sure wish I'd known sooner...
sure wish I'd known sooner...
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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MCobb
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Re: demountable front wheels
[/image]
Thanks to all who have educated me! I bought a parts car that has two front Kelsey "loose lug" front wheels that seem OK, and three rusty (but not terrible) Ford rims. I already have this Kelsey/Ford combination on the rear so I'll end up with four Kelsey wheels and five Ford rims.
My question now is what is the best way to clean these wheels to prep them for painting? The rims can be chemically stripped or sandblasted, they seem easy. Should I trust a sandblaster to stay clear of the wood spokes? Can anyone recommend a sandblaster (or "media" blaster) in the Chicago area?
Thanks to all who have educated me! I bought a parts car that has two front Kelsey "loose lug" front wheels that seem OK, and three rusty (but not terrible) Ford rims. I already have this Kelsey/Ford combination on the rear so I'll end up with four Kelsey wheels and five Ford rims.
My question now is what is the best way to clean these wheels to prep them for painting? The rims can be chemically stripped or sandblasted, they seem easy. Should I trust a sandblaster to stay clear of the wood spokes? Can anyone recommend a sandblaster (or "media" blaster) in the Chicago area?
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Allan
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Re: demountable front wheels
Fixed lug rims on Kelsey loose lug type felloes is not a good mix. Demountable rims are designed to wedge on one side of the felloe. All the 4 bolts do is maintain that wedging effect. They are not drive bolts like they are on modern cars. Kelsey loose lug felloes are designed to have the rim wedge on the outside rolled land on the felloe. They are slightly smaller in diameter than the felloes that take fixed lug rims, so fixed lug rims on Kelsey felloes will be relying on the 4 lugs and bolts to stay tight on the wheel. It may work, but will not work as intended.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
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MCobb
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Re: demountable front wheels
Allan,
Thanks, I understand your concern but for my purposes I think the Kelsey/Ford combination will work well. I don't put many miles on my car or drive it fast.
I have a question about the spokes - is treating them with Keratex (horse hoof strengthener0 a good idea?
Perhaps i should move this to the general discussion forum instead of "Parts for sale"
Martin
Thanks, I understand your concern but for my purposes I think the Kelsey/Ford combination will work well. I don't put many miles on my car or drive it fast.
I have a question about the spokes - is treating them with Keratex (horse hoof strengthener0 a good idea?
Perhaps i should move this to the general discussion forum instead of "Parts for sale"
Martin