Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
Topic author - Posts: 2477
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:30 pm
- First Name: Dave
- Last Name: Hjortnaes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Speedster, 20 touring
- Location: Men Falls, WI
- MTFCA Number: 28762
- MTFCI Number: 22402
Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Eventually I will need to remove the hogshead, but does anyone have any methods to slow down the leaks? It also leaks thru the universal cap, but not as much as it does thru the pedals.
-
- Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
There is the infamous 'o-ring trick' but I could not get it to work.
-
- Posts: 5256
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
The real answer is new pedal shafts, bronze bushes in the hogshead, especially in alloy covers, and lipped oil seals on the outer sides of the cover. Anything else is asking for divine intervention.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
-
- Posts: 647
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:40 am
- First Name: CHARLIE
- Last Name: BRANCA
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: "27 Tudor / "23 Touring
- Location: Brick N.J.
- MTFCA Number: 28967
- Board Member Since: 2010
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Here's a "quickie" that might do the trick as a temp fix. Clean the hogshead area around the shaft really good. A carb cleaner type spray works great for this. Apply a thin film of oil to the shaft. Don't get any on the hogs head. Use a good grade silicone and apply it to the hogshead & the shaft. It should not stick to the shaft because of the oil.A sizeable ammount is needed. When it sets the shaft should move freely with reduced oil leakage. I tried it once and it's quite OK. In fact I never removed it.
Forget everything you thought you knew.
-
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:09 pm
- First Name: Jason
- Last Name: McDaniel
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 Roadster / 1926 Pickup / 1926 Express-Camper
- Location: Dallas, TX
- MTFCA Number: 50306
- Board Member Since: 2018
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
While I haven't got mine together yet, I've got the proper tooling to machine the recesses to add seals to the pedal shafts and starter bushing.
Here's an example of adding seals to the pedals using the National 340849 seal.
https://modeltfordfix.com/how-to-keep-y ... territory/
Here's an example of adding seals to the pedals using the National 340849 seal.
https://modeltfordfix.com/how-to-keep-y ... territory/
Jason McDaniel
-
- Posts: 4143
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:31 pm
- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Hatch
- Location: Alabama
- MTFCA Number: 49974
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Only way to fix is bushings and seals in housings with new pedal shafts.
Also, put bushing and seal in clutch shaft. Dan
Also, put bushing and seal in clutch shaft. Dan
-
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:51 am
- First Name: Dick
- Last Name: Cruickshank
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 Depot Hack, 1916 Touring
- Location: Angier NC
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
If you do any T touring with a group I would not "fix"it unless it is more that a little. The "drip" makes touring easier to to not get lost. Just follow the T tracks!!!
-
- Posts: 552
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:51 pm
- First Name: William
- Last Name: May
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Runabout
- Location: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Dick C hit the nail right on the thumb. If you stop all the oil leaks, are you prepared to start using bread crumbs to find your way home? It is either that, or a REALLY long string.
-
- Posts: 5459
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
- First Name: Frank
- Last Name: Brandi
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
- Location: Moline IL
- Board Member Since: 2018
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Not sure how bad a leak you have, but it is lubricating the pedal cams for you.
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger
Mick Jagger
-
- Posts: 545
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:27 pm
- First Name: BOB
- Last Name: CASCISA
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 TOURING
- Location: POULSBO, WA
- MTFCA Number: 16897
- MTFCI Number: 16628
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Here is a solution from a friend.
Respectfully Submitted,
Be_Zero_Be
I drive a Model T ... Microseconds don't matter
For every Absolute Model T Fact there are at least three exceptions.
Be_Zero_Be
I drive a Model T ... Microseconds don't matter
For every Absolute Model T Fact there are at least three exceptions.
-
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:16 am
- First Name: Philip
- Last Name: Berg
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Touring 1916 Coupelet
- Location: Simi Valley CA
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
I did the o-ring thing to the hogshead on my 11 touring. Both on the shafts and clutch shafts (from the inside). I'm glad to report they still weep oil. A proper lip seal is a better alternative. I rebushed and used new shafts and supports. Somewhat frustrated after all the work I did.
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Philip
don't be too discouraged with a less-than-adequate result using o-rings. If o-ring design criteria really was "chamfer the ID some, and then schmoosh them tight" like is often suggested (and some have success with), then the Parker O-ring design handbook would not be 292 pages long, it would be published on a post card. Not only is there real, true design criteria, but for every o-ring size you can buy, there are many many o-ring compounds to chose from; each having a specific use, varying sizes and tolerances around a nominal size, heat ranges, chemical compatability, etc.
Success using many of the approved aproaches found on this forum should be a happy surprise, not an expectation. Small lip seals (National or equivalent) as typically found in transmissions, etc., installed into counterbored recesses, using new round shafts really is the way to go in the future.
don't be too discouraged with a less-than-adequate result using o-rings. If o-ring design criteria really was "chamfer the ID some, and then schmoosh them tight" like is often suggested (and some have success with), then the Parker O-ring design handbook would not be 292 pages long, it would be published on a post card. Not only is there real, true design criteria, but for every o-ring size you can buy, there are many many o-ring compounds to chose from; each having a specific use, varying sizes and tolerances around a nominal size, heat ranges, chemical compatability, etc.
Success using many of the approved aproaches found on this forum should be a happy surprise, not an expectation. Small lip seals (National or equivalent) as typically found in transmissions, etc., installed into counterbored recesses, using new round shafts really is the way to go in the future.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:16 am
- First Name: Philip
- Last Name: Berg
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Touring 1916 Coupelet
- Location: Simi Valley CA
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
I chamfered the supports leaving .010 crush on the o-rings. I know all about the Parker o-ring book, I've worked for them for twenty three years this May.Scott_Conger wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:36 pmPhilip
don't be too discouraged with a less-than-adequate result using o-rings. If o-ring design criteria really was "chamfer the ID some, and then schmoosh them tight" like is often suggested (and some have success with), then the Parker O-ring design handbook would not be 292 pages long, it would be published on a post card. Not only is there real, true design criteria, but for every o-ring size you can buy, there are many many o-ring compounds to chose from; each having a specific use, varying sizes and tolerances around a nominal size, heat ranges, chemical compatability, etc.
Success using many of the approved aproaches found on this forum should be a happy surprise, not an expectation. Small lip seals (National or equivalent) as typically found in transmissions, etc., installed into counterbored recesses, using new round shafts really is the way to go in the future.
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
I've never found a design that called out a chamfer and crush, but if you did, then touche....perhaps it is an unpublished trade secret
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:45 pm
- First Name: jeff
- Last Name: cordes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 25
- Location: houston
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
I let them leak. I know a guy who sealed them so well he now has to grease the pedal cams manually!!
-
Topic author - Posts: 2477
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:30 pm
- First Name: Dave
- Last Name: Hjortnaes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Speedster, 20 touring
- Location: Men Falls, WI
- MTFCA Number: 28762
- MTFCI Number: 22402
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
The reason I asked for assistance is because I also have to drain the differential a couple times a year. I also need to remove the hogshead to see if there is a seal in the drive plate assembly. If the seal is in the drive plate, but it leaks, is it also possible to add something like a silicone seal to prevent the oil from going down the driveshaft?According to the service manual replacing the 4th main is not too difficult. I am wondering if I need a new ball cap(4th main) and if it can be installed with the motor in the car?
-
- Posts: 896
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
- First Name: James
- Last Name: Bartsch
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '26 Coupe
- Location: Dryden, NY 13053
- MTFCA Number: 30615
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Philip: Please elaborate on the O-ring application. Specifically, O-ring dimensions and material, and chamfer geometry & depth. I assume the 0.010" O-ring 'crush' is against a 45 degree chamfer in the cam bore and the flat side of the hogshead? Thanks, jb
-
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:16 am
- First Name: Philip
- Last Name: Berg
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Touring 1916 Coupelet
- Location: Simi Valley CA
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
I gave my pedal supports to one of our manual machinist and told him I need a 45 chamfer that left the o-ring .010 above the mating surface. Pure model t guess, .020 might be better who knows.