A little tire history

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
otrcman
Posts: 364
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:25 pm
First Name: Dick
Last Name: Fischer
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 Touring
Location: Arroyo Grande, CA

A little tire history

Post by otrcman » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:09 pm

I was doing some internet reading on the history of rubber in general and use on tires in particular. One article (link below) was especially interesting as to the development of rubber tires. Somebody here recently asked when tires switched from white to black. In the linked article, it seems that adding carbon black to rubber was found to increase strength and UV resistance as early as 1912, but it didn't come into popular use until about 1917.

People had been experimenting with additives and processes (as in vulcanizing) to improve the properties of rubber as early as the 1850's. Somewhere along the way, zinc oxide was found to increase the durability of rubber. The article doesn't say so specifically, but I'm wondering if it was the added zinc oxide that gave us white tires.

Apparently zinc came into higher demand for munitions during WWI, which probably gave impetus to the change from zinc oxide to carbon in tires.

Dick

https://jalopnik.com/heres-why-tires-ar ... 1828925177


OilyBill
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:51 pm
First Name: William
Last Name: May
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Runabout
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: A little tire history

Post by OilyBill » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:07 pm

I had a long-running argument with a car friend of mine about the use of white and black tires.
If you look at McCalley's book on the Model T. there are white and black tires mixed on Model T's into the 1920's, and this is on the factory model shots, not just people's Kodak prints.
Prior to that, they all look either white, or very light gray to me.
I always contended that nearly all early cars had white tires. Although I have heard of some red ones, and even an orange set. Don't know what they were putting in the rubber for those.

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 4956
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1920 Dodge touring, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
Location: Portland Or
MTFCA Number: 52564
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: A little tire history

Post by Mark Gregush » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:37 pm

Natural rubber is gray. White sidewalls were around before they were the hot thing. Adding carbon black to tires was expensive so just a black cap was used on some brands of tires. As cost came down they were able to make all black tires. Guess if they could make the gray rubber white it would be a simple process to add dye to the rubber for colored tires or tubes.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: A little tire history

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:03 am

I've seen old ads showing red tires, the same red as radiator hoses, but I'm not finding a lot of examples with a Google search. Gray and white are pretty easy though.
Screen Shot 2020-10-23 at 10.25.45 PM.png
1907

Screen Shot 2020-10-23 at 10.36.22 PM.png
1913

Screen Shot 2020-10-23 at 10.33.23 PM.png
Firestone's latest in 1917 were these nifty red & black tires. I wonder if Ford ever used these.

Screen Shot 2020-10-23 at 10.41.35 PM.png
1941
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Rich Bingham
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:23 am
First Name: Rich
Last Name: Bingham
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 runabout
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho

Re: A little tire history

Post by Rich Bingham » Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:05 pm

Imprint on a good old red rubber tube. Anyone know when they disappeared ?
Attachments
B1567DFE-0F34-41ED-8877-7B5E62655EFC.jpeg
"Get a horse !"

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: A little tire history

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:19 pm

I don't know how long red tubes were around but I know for sure they were used in the T era.

IMG_0512.JPG
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Bill Dizer
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:58 pm
First Name: Bill
Last Name: Dizer
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 coupe, 1927 depot hack
Location: Spencer, IN
MTFCA Number: 28610
MTFCA Life Member: YES
Board Member Since: 2014

Re: A little tire history

Post by Bill Dizer » Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:40 pm

If you are serious about tire development, you need to start with bicycle tires, where pneumatic tires were made popular in late 1880's, and had taken completely over by about 1892. Automotive tires were developed from them. Bicycles also started the good roads movement 20-25 years before autos became popular.

User avatar

George Mills
Posts: 543
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:32 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: Mills
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Roadster, 1919 Hack, 1925 Fordor
Location: Cherry Hill NJ/Anona Largo FL
MTFCA Number: 29497
MTFCI Number: 10032
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: A little tire history

Post by George Mills » Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:59 pm

FWIW....my 25 Fordor still has red rubber tubes! I don’t drive on them anymore...but they all still hold air good enough to do roll around for a few days...lol. I’ve had replacement tubes both folded, which dry rotted in the wrapper, to partially inflated but still surface cracked...so on the Hack which takes the same size tubes, I no longer have NIW (new in wrapper) spares...just a ready to run spare on the running board and two pumped and on rim in the garage 🤣


Allan
Posts: 5201
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: A little tire history

Post by Allan » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:34 pm

I have two red rubber Goodyear tubes somewhere in my fleet of Ts. They came to me in two had-as-rock new tyres on new rims. They are quite thick. I have no qualms at all about riding on them. I know they hold air, as none of my Ts need topping up between uses.

Allan from down under.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic