Be Careful What You Wish For...

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Tim Rogers
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Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by Tim Rogers » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:15 am

Let me preface this post by stating that everyone involved with the creation and development of the new Forum deserves much praise, however...

I miss the old Forum and I don't think I'm alone. I understand that the previous one could not be supported any longer but what we have now does not have any of the charm and uniqueness of the old Forum. I realize that change is inevitable but I just can't get acclimated to all of the icons, stars, paperclips, emojis and etc. It's an unbelievably cluttered presentation and I think it has driven away valuable contributors. Based on many posts from the old Forum the majority seemed to like having only the Threads and Classifieds sections. This allowed folks to scroll through the topics and pick what was interesting to them. I really loved having OT posts and photos sprinkled among threads strictly dealing with Model Ts but now that's gone.

Anyway all of this is a reminder that a few (not the majority) are the ones that affect change. So I've said my piece and I hope I didn't hurt anybody's feelings. I am aware that if I don't like the new Forum then I don't have to visit it. Just be careful what you wish for...
<o><o><o><o> Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks - Forum member since 2013 <o><o><o><o>


MichaelPawelek
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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by MichaelPawelek » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:25 am

Tim, The “off topic” posts have their own section now.
Also, Since this new forum and easier picture posting there appears to be more members than ever.

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Jim_PTC_GA
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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by Jim_PTC_GA » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:02 am

I'm with you Tim. I liked the OT sprinkled in amongst the T stuff.
Just give me time to Rust and I'll be good as new. :) Wabi-Sabi


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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by tmodeldriver » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:38 am

I'm with Tim. I'll say right up front that I loved the old forum just the way it was, warts and all. I also realize the need for change because of lack of support for the old one, whatever that means. But I'm seeing this one getting broken down into more and more categories which is going to make it harder and harder to study and enjoy. We saw the same thing happen to the MTFCI forum. How many of you guys even bother to look at it any more? I haven't for several years and now I see this one headed in the same direction. Makes me kind of sad. :(

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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:04 am

As a person of the elderly persuasion who will probably never be fully comfortable with changing technology, I can sympathize with those who are put off by the changes of format here. But I see only two choices. Get used to it or quit. As I wish to continue enjoying the wisdom and camaraderie of more experienced hands, I choose the former. One thing I have done with the new format is explore the various bells and whistles to see whet they are, then proceed to ignore most of them, just as I did with the more primitive bells and whistles of the old format.

"I'm a man. But I can change, if I have to, I guess."
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

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Tim Rogers
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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by Tim Rogers » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:23 pm

I just saw joeg48's post about the old forum. Had I seen it earlier this morning I would not have created this thread. My apologies...
<o><o><o><o> Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks - Forum member since 2013 <o><o><o><o>

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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by Jugster » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:28 pm

I have to appreciate the time and effort that goes into maintaining this forum. It is truly unique and Chris deserves eternal credit, kudos and thanks for all he's done.

Having said that, I really, REALLY dislike the new format for all kinds of reasons. Some of them may be even be legit. What is undeniable is that I find myself checking in less and less and certainly contributing less and less. Oh, how I wish we could go back to the old format, but my understanding is that this is technically impossible. My response to those who have pushed and shoved digital technology at me has always been, "You do realize you're talking to a man who starts his car with a crank—right?"


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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by jiminbartow » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:56 pm

I agree whole heartedly with Tim. I am one member who does not frequent the forum nearly as much as I used to. It just doesn’t feel the same. I had the same feeling when, as a kid, we moved out of our old house into a new modern house. While the new house had all the modern appliances and bells and whistles, It was not the same as the house I spent the first 12 years of my life in and never felt like home. Just like the the old forum was my home, this new one, no matter how advanced, will never measure up and feel like home. Jim Patrick


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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by Burger in Spokane » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:37 pm

Kind of a long story, but relative to clubs and forums ....

Many years ago, I had a vision of a car club for a non-Ford/GM orphan car marque that had
a heavy focus on touring events, restoration clinics, and enlisting area services to make this
car easier to own/restore and a crowd that was more active and fun than usual.

The first attempt to organize involved mailing out some 200 notices to known owners and
renting a banquet room at a restaurant. In spite of allowing plenty of time, no one showed
up. A few years later, a second attmpt was made with the same results.

A few years on, I was discussing my frustration with another owner, and we committed to an
idea of doing the club, producing a magazine, and all the things we envisioned for this "club",
even if it was only the two of us as members - lead from the front tactics. So, we took along
a camera on our wrecking yard adventures, engaged good shops around the area that did the
kind of work our cars needs, and got lots of photos of these and trips here and there in our cars.
We then sat down and pushed out a 30+ page monthly magazine to our list of owners, along with
a lot of old magazine clippings and articles to give the whole thing a back porch, fun sort of spin.
With no intention of bringing any of this to another no-show club formation meeting, we purposely
set all the dates for upcoming event as if everyone were getting their magazine late and everything
listed had already occurred. We purposely made the only contact a mailing address to remain aloof,
forcing anyone interested to actually make a little effort to make contact.

It did not take long before the letters started coming in. Since we were kinda "half-pissed" by
the previous lack of interest, we had a laugh, took them in, and added a "letters to the editor"
column, where we responded ambiguously to the questions and comments. The overall tone of
the rag was one of that worst critic we've all had about our cars ... Why do you own this junker ?
kind of thing. The harsher we made it, the better the response. Within six issues, a lot of people
were getting pretty pushy about wanting solid intel on this elusive "club". This just made it more
fun. Now, the original plan was to play "teaser" for 12 months, and see where it went. As the
interest grew and the fun of being a tease did too, we kept to our plan, and on the 12th month,
moved all the dates forward to actual events, and held an actual meeting. We had people from
three states and Canada show up and signed up 125 members.

It was a smashing success, and the people who commented said the silly, sarcastic,non-boring
nature of the magazine was the reason they wanted to be part of this group. My friend and I
poured it on, pasting in all sorts of inappropriate and UN-PC material we cut from period magazines,
and writing caustic "help" columns, suggesting the fictitious inquirer just using that old heap to
plug a ditch, or sump'in. The club thrived. We did monthly clinics on bodywork, rebuilding brakes,
and everything in between. After a few years, I wanted to let a few eager members take the reigns,
and stepped back. These new whippersnappers were "all business" and cut the magazine to a simple
folded over 8x11.5 sheet of paper, with meeting minutes and officer contacts. It was like the plague
had come to town. Membership dropped to under 25. Club rancor ensued and the ship hit the rocks
after a year or so.

After a bit, a core group reorganized and asked me to "do it again". My original partner in crime had
left the scene, so a new nutcase with similar lack of self-seriousness was brought on board and we cranked
it up, and like vuja de, it happened all over again. The people came back, and fun was had by many.

A few years later, a divorce and move out of the area forced me to again hand over leadership, and
the club again slipped into the old boring paradigm of all-business and no fun, and faded away into being
a small typical club, if it exists at all anymore.

The bottom line, as I see it, is if it isn't fun, people (and enthusiasm) go away. There are always those
super-serious, no humor people in any crowd. I chose to make it hard for those people to get any traction
in our group. I invited them to go ruin another club or form their own. We made fun of ourselves at every
turn, and people liked the different vibe of an active group that really pushed doing things and laughing.
The whiners were aghast that we gave out "Ugliest Car" awards and refused to play the normal car club game.
But those that liked a more relaxed, helpful car scene had a great place to gather.

This forum is no different than the magazine I used to pump out, and the players are no different than the
players we had to deal with. From the jokesters to the hyper-serious, they are all here. The challange for
the "ringmaster" to producing a "great show" is how they engage the crowd and how to read the input (complaints)
coming in, to "put it all together".

Frankly, I get enough seriousness in the rest of my life. I go to my cars and old junk as an escape from that.
I don't want my "escape" to be just more of the same grind. Sure, I know the answers to real questions are in
the pie for me to access if I need them, but the overall tone of rules and "no off-topic !" demands by the few
makes "the whole" a lesser experience for all but the purists and hardcores who disdain silliness and fun.

Ultimately, whatever the leadership chooses, will determine how this ship sails. We all know the results of
the tactics the MTFCI took. I personally saw it in the story related above. What lessons can be learned before
repeating the mistakes of others ? I am no longer a player in the game, so wherever this river flows is where I
will drift along. I only offer the above as experience from being the pilot in a previous lifetime.
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:57 pm

There is already a string taking about this subject.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1992
I can kinda understand, but this is how it is going to be. There is no going back.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup

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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by John Warren » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:20 pm

Burger, There are doers, like your self, and that is how things happen. When the doers fall, it all goes away. It is the sad but true, with out people like you and Chris and Jeff, this whole thing will go away. People are grumbling some about change but I hope they don't get too frustrated and keep coming back. Participation is most important!! It is great hearing from you again. Thank you.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P


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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by John kuehn » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:33 pm

I guess it’s kind of like Chickasha. I hate to see it go in 2020 as they are saying but also reading in between the lines the same type of meet will be at another location. So I guess we’ll see how the new location goes along with the new forum.
Time will tell.


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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by Erik Barrett » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:04 pm

I am getting used to it. I like how easy it is to post up pics now. Like tonight’s project. Windsor valves for the 25 Tudor.
Attachments
774B52C7-59A9-4322-B622-D4ADD6FA81D7.jpeg


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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by Burger in Spokane » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:26 am

John Warren wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:20 pm
Burger, There are doers, like your self, and that is how things happen. When the doers fall, it all goes away. It is the sad but true, with out people like you and Chris and Jeff, this whole thing will go away. People are grumbling some about change but I hope they don't get too frustrated and keep coming back. Participation is most important!! It is great hearing from you again. Thank you.
============================

Good to be back, John. I think any forum mod or person in a club leadership position has
to carefully weigh their handling of the grumblers and how it affects the whole group and
forum/club 12 steps down the road. For me, telling the grumblers to pound sand made for
a fun and special club for a very large group. Feedback I got, and the proof of relinquishing
control to the "all business" crew twice, bore out that, for my group, I steered it right for the
larger group.

I'm not going to say what is right for this group. I am too new here and lack the time with
T's to be any real expert. I just know what worked for me in a similar situation, and if the
MTFCI forum is any indication, it might be a good idea here. Just another .02 from another
schmuck.
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:49 am

How many of you guys even bother to look at it [the MTFCI Forum] any more?
That would be zero. They got rid of it quite some time ago due to lack of participation. So far that doesn't seem to be a problem here. The last time I looked this forum had 1957 registered users, plus an unknown number of lurkers. In 3½ months the general discussion forum has amassed 1161 topics on 12 pages. Pretty good for a dying operation. :D
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by D Stroud » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:28 am

I fought change (with myself) for a long time, I'm pushing 70 and I don't like change much, I didn't even like the change from 8 track tape players to cassettes. (see where this is going? :) ) I really liked the old forum. I don't have the ability ( read smarts) to post pictures anyway, so that was a non issue. That being said, I am SLOWLY learning the quirks and kinks on this format. There are a few issues that I'm not comfortable with, but no big deal. I am dumber than a post when it comes to computer stuff, so if I can get it figured out (sort of :) ), most anybody can. As always, there is a learning curve, heck, I hadn't even been on a computer until about 15 years ago, it took about 2 weeks to figure out how to turn the damn thing on, took a few months for the damn keys to quit changing places!! I had never learned to type (why learn to type, I was never going to have an office job anywayI!? ) when I was in school. I too didn't like the MTFCI forum after they changed to this format, but I think they had a lot more trouble with getting it working than our Gurus have here. ;) ;) JMHO Dave
1925 mostly original coupe.

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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:41 am

I miss the old forum, Harrah's before the change, The Jerome Swap Meet and Boise at the fairgrounds and sometimes even my ex-wife. (don't tell Joy). Am I better off? I can't say. I know I wouldn't be happy if I went back. I would want to include some of the new features there. We all can imagine something better. I could name several things that were improved out of existence. I don't think that will happen here.
The old forum seemed more interactive. An old photo would get many comments.
If I'm honest the old forum took me longer to figure out than this one. Maybe it's because of all the helpful info on how to use it.
I will wait and see. I have some time left.
On another note I went to the local car show this weekend. One Model T and half a dozen restored or original cars. Mostly street rods, rat rods and radical stuff. Several cars were there in honor of the previous, diseased owner. We had to leave early to attend a funeral for one of our members. Most of the folks who got trophies hobbled up to the podium some with canes. We also met some bright young guys with model Ts or other restorations.
I'm not sure why I am mentioning this but I have gone to several tours over the last 10 years thinking it may be our last one. I received an award this year for the "Best pre-14 car driven the longest distance to a National Tour". (VMCCA) That award had had a recipiant for several years. Perhaps I no longer worry about wearing out the cars.
Just some random thoughts I think many of us have.
Rich
When did I do that?


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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by Burger in Spokane » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:32 pm

Rich,

Your rambling has caused me to have a thought ... but rather than derail this thread,
I will start a fresh one. But the basic idea is about how we view getting old and the
changes that come with it.
More people are doing it today than ever before !


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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by Hal » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:53 am

I liked the old forum better myself. Tim hit the nail on the head. This one lacks the charm of the old one and my predictions are coming true in that there are becoming a different forum for every little thing. Soon, there will be one for brass T's then Black T's and brass T's with gas lights and brass T's with electric lights. and so on and so on. Then there will be sub-forums for mechanical and electrical and chassis and power train and the guy with the early brass T won't know whether to post his starter problem on the mechanical, electrical, power train, brass t or black T (Because a brass T never had a starter).......and then there will be the forum police who will bitch that he posted in the wrong forum and send e-mails to moderator demanding the post be moved, and..........Get the picture?

Like I said before, it ain't what it used to be and I don't enjoy getting on here as much as I used to. And that probably has some jumping for joy. Whatever.

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Re: Be Careful What You Wish For...

Post by Mark Gregush » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:55 am

I could agree that there is a point where there might be too many categories but here are a couple of samples that have been around for some time;
https://www.smokstak.com/
https://vccachat.org/
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup

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