Pulling a Model T

Post by **BLB27** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:56 pm

Can a Model T be pulled? If so, how?

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 11:08 pm

If you mean to get it started the first time, yes. Towing for any distance, no. Attach the tow rope to the frame, not the axle.

Post by **Craig Leach** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:10 pm

Hi Bruce,
More info would be nice. Jeff is correct if you are pulling it to start it pull from the frame. If you are towing to get it some place the issue is that
a T is lubed by the moving parts of the engine & has no nuetral like a modern car with a sliding gear transmission. So if you flat tow it there are
parts turning that will not get oil & burn up. It will help if you let the Forum know more detail of what you need to do.
Craig.

Erik Johnson · Post by **Erik Johnson** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:36 pm

If you must resort to flat-towing a Model T, remove the sparkplugs and put the transmission in high gear.

In 1951 Royce D. Peterson bought this unrestored 1917 roadster in Hastings, Minnesota and he and my father flat-towed it 25 miles to Minneapolis using the above method.

Post by **DanTreace** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:57 pm

Ford Service Bulletin.

Post by **John kuehn** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:40 pm

Around 60+ years ago my Father and my Uncle pulled my Grandfathers 24 Coupe 14 miles to our farm. I can remember they used a chain run through a pipe to keep it from running up on the 50 model Ford my Father used to to pull it home.

They put the car in neutral and got home an hour or so later. When they pushed it in the shed I do remember them saying it smelled hot !

A while later my uncle came out and got it running but it wouldn’t move. It was determined the bands were burned out. Some new bands from Wards were put in it and it would drive but smoked! I restored it years later but how they got it to our farm stuck in my mind from then on!
The one thing I don’t remember was if they pulled the plugs or not when they pulled it!

Post by **BLB27** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:44 pm

Craig, The reason I asked about pulling a T is that I will soon be driving my coupe for the first time since it has been restored. I will be driving in and around a park which is about a mile from my son's garage. I can't imagine anything happening where I would have to pull it back, but thought I would ask what would be involved in pulling a T.

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:27 pm

I know exactly how to flat tow a T and minimize the potential for damage. That potential ranges from mild to severe depending on how you do it, how far you do it and how fast you do it. Because of that potential, I won't do it.

Everyone breaks down eventually. If you can't fix it and drive it home, then that is what a AAA card, a cell phone, and a flatbed are for.

Post by **DHort** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:33 pm

Scott has it right

AAA plus will tow it 100 miles. Well worth the cost. Make sure you tell them flatbed only and please go slow.

Post by **varmint** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:34 pm

I have a car dolly but cannot use it for the T.
If I haul it nose first then the transmission may seize up.
If I haul it tail first then the front bearings may seize up.

Post by **dlmyers** » Sat Jul 01, 2023 7:48 am

Here are some photos from a forum post about what happened when someone towed a model T. Unfortunately I didn't save a link to the post.

Post by **jiminbartow** » Sat Jul 01, 2023 10:14 am

The T cannot be pulled. If you have to haul it for any distance, rent a flat trailer from U-Haul equipped with wheel tie downs. Don’t try to drive the T on as there is a good chance the T will go off the front end of the trailer when it is not stopped in time. Instead, pull it onto the trailer with a winch. I hauled my 1926 coupe 1,500 miles from York, Maine to Florida without incident. Jim Patrick

Been Here Before · Post by **Been Here Before** » Sat Jul 01, 2023 11:48 am

So you probably need to use a reasonable towing speed...I would think that towing a T at speeds of 60 to 80 MPH is not recommended.

Erik Johnson · Post by **Erik Johnson** » Sat Jul 01, 2023 12:16 pm

The original poster also clarified that the car would be towed for one mile, if it needed to be towed at all.

I doubt pushing or pulling a Model T in neutral at walking speed for one mile is going to hurt anything.

Otherwise, pull the plugs, put the car in high gear and pull it slowly for one mile.

Jacob Mangold · Post by **Jacob Mangold** » Sat Jul 01, 2023 2:43 pm

What about pulling a car that has a Warford style auxiliary transmission that has a neutral? That would be fine if you left it in neutral, right? Just curious.

Thanks, Jacob Mangold

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Sat Jul 01, 2023 3:23 pm

Yep. Warford neutral would leave the T transmission disconnected from the drive shaft. That's why an aux transmission requires aux brakes.

Post by **speedytinc** » Sat Jul 01, 2023 5:16 pm

Erik Johnson wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 01, 2023 12:16 pm
The original poster also clarified that the car would be towed for one mile, if it needed to be towed at all.

I doubt pushing or pulling a Model T in neutral at walking speed for one mile is going to hurt anything.

Otherwise, pull the plugs, put the car in high gear and pull it slowly for one mile.

I would not risk it, even for 1 mile. Dry bushings could cause damage even that short distance.
Improper break in with a fresh transmission rebuild can seize up bushings in a few minutes.
I suppose driving the car isnt possible?

Post by **kmatt2** » Sat Jul 01, 2023 5:25 pm

A general note about standard, and / or , auxiliary transmissions .
In some the counter shaft always turns and in others the counter shaft sometimes doesn’t turn, resulting in poor bearing lubrication because the counter shaft is not turning. The dog clutch type such as Moore or sliding gear type that keeps the output shaft and gear engaged with counter shaft would be ok to tow at Model T speeds. In some transmissions when they are in neutral the counter shaft doesn’t turn because the input or output shaft isn’t engaged. I do not know of any Model T era auxiliary transmission like this but different make car or later make transmission could be like this. It is best to not tow a Model T even with an auxiliary transmission in neutral over Model T speeds and long distances, say over 10 - 20 miles. When in doubt rent a Uhaul or get a friend with a trailer to help you. Remember if you do tow in neutral, that unless your T has rear wheel auxiliary brakes, you have no brakes and could run into the tow vehicle if you have to stop .

joe.wal · Post by **joe.wal** » Sun Jul 02, 2023 7:20 am

So how did they do it 100 years ago ???
It should not have been a rare task to move a broken down T for some miles and I doubt there were many flatbeds available back then ?

Post by **TFan** » Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:00 am

Post by **John kuehn** » Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:23 am

I wonder how many times those guys used a wheel barrow to get a T the garage.

Post by **Bill Dizer** » Sun Jul 02, 2023 4:51 pm

In 1959, my dad moved us from Azalia In. To Utica Ny. We flat towed my late grandfathers 1925 Coupe behind a 1958 Plymouth the entire way. My dad and uncle designed and built a tow bar that attached to the front axle and radius wishbone. It allowed for up and down movement. The u-joint was disconnected, not sure if it was removed and a rear half installed or not. The only problem we had was the old paraffin grease in the front wheels got hot, melted, and ran out. Dad bought a can of fibrous wheel bearing grease and repacked them in the hotel parking lot. It towed with no problems tracking. Our dog rode in the T! I still have the tow bar. It may have been used to tow the Coupe from Utica to Fairfax Va in the seventies. It has now made its way back to within 80 miles of where it started. It’s been in the family since early 1942.

Post by **BLB27** » Sun Jul 02, 2023 6:14 pm

Bill, Could you clarify "The u-joint was disconnected, not sure if it was removed and -----" Thanks

Post by **speedytinc** » Sun Jul 02, 2023 7:44 pm

If the U joint is removed in a stock rear end, there is nothing to keep the pinion from bottoming out on the ring gear.
If a ruckstel, the pinion nut can scrape & cut into the bell. The safe thing to do would be to take a U joint apart & install the base piece to maintain some DS thrust.

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Sun Jul 02, 2023 7:55 pm

I'm thinking that if I broke down 1 mile from home and had the wherewithal to pull the rear axle, remove the u-joint, disassemble the u-joint, reinstall the base of the u-joint onto the driveshaft, reinstall the rear axle into the car so that I could tow it, I'd probably just fix the car and drive it home. Just sayin'.

Post by **Craig Leach** » Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:16 pm

Hi Bruce,
I would think if you had to tow 1 mile to get home with no better brakes than a T has you would do it slow & easy. My biggest consern would be
the dumb people you would encounter along the way! Maybe the best thing to have is a set of towing lights you can attatch to the T & plug into
the tow vehicle & turn on the flashers. Stop half way & check all the scarry things that have been brought up & continue on. Calling AAA for a mile
tow will take longer than flat towing & most wrecker guys will do more damage to a T than you will save! They use chains & winches & have 0
knowlege of Model T's. If it brakes so bad that it will not roll you will need the expertease of a T person with a trailer & or AAA ( Find one first )
you will find we are more freindly in person than online. A short chain around the frame/crossmember is OK but a strap or rope is more forgiving.
Your pinion is kept from going back far enough to get into the carrior by the ring gear

If not we just found out why you need to be towed! See
& or AAA. When I built my speedster ( first T) I put it together from a frame & parts in 3 months, drove around the block 3 times loaded it on the
trailer & took it to a 150 mile endurance run & finished! ( not very well got a lot of penalties for going to fast) Dont sell yourself or your T short
It took me years to learn just how good a T is & how little I knew about them.
Craig.

Post by **NoelChico** » Sun Jul 02, 2023 11:28 pm

Would adding 4-6 quarts of oil supply enough lubrication to the transmission to safely tow it at a slow speed in neutral? Drain the oil when you get it home.

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Mon Jul 03, 2023 9:45 am

you never, ever, ever, never want to tow a T in neutral regardless of how much extra oil you put in. In gear with plugs removed is the only safe way to tow one at very low speed, over a relatively short distance and "safe" is a bit of tongue-in-cheek, at that, depending on who the pilot is.

Post by **Bill Dizer** » Mon Jul 03, 2023 5:29 pm

In reference to my comment about the u-joint being disconnected or removed, I know the driveshaft was disconnected somehow from the engine, but I’m not sure how it was done. I was seven years old at the time, and remember my dad had to go underneath and connect something, but I don’t know what. I suspect the u-joint and driveshaft were both removed, allowing the rear axle to free wheel. The driveshaft tube had to be there for radius arms. I know my dad installed brass thrust washers in the rear end about that time, because when I had to rebuild it a few years ago due to a pinion bearing failure, he told me they had been changed. He said it was while he was working at Cummins Diesel, and he had machined them himself out of some of the available brass stock.

Post by **jiminbartow** » Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:27 pm

Undo the 4 bolts holding the driveshaft to the engine and allow the end of the driveshaft to hang down. Have a wire ready to suspend the driveshaft just below the rear of the engine. When you get to your destination, hook it back up. When towing, do not tow it any faster than 40 mph. The Model T wheels and bearings were not designed for running at higher speeds than the maximum speeds a running Model T can attain.

Cordes_jeff · Post by **Cordes_jeff** » Sat Jul 08, 2023 1:11 pm

I've been towed many times through the years. Just throw it in high and go. A few miles won't hurt a thing

Post by **speedytinc** » Sat Jul 08, 2023 1:46 pm

jiminbartow wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:27 pm
Undo the 4 bolts holding the driveshaft to the engine and allow the end of the driveshaft to hang down. Have a wire ready to suspend the driveshaft just below the rear of the engine. When you get to your destination, hook it back up. When towing, do not tow it any faster than 40 mph. The Model T wheels and bearings were not designed for running at higher speeds than the maximum speeds a running Model T can attain.

Never don this, but wouldnt the loose end of the U-joint floppin around be an issue?

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Sat Jul 08, 2023 7:15 pm

It is not as simple as just removing the four bolts at the U-joint end of the driveshaft. You need to be able to withdraw the u joint from the back of the transmission. That cannot be done without unhooking the back axle at the frame. Even with a come-a-long to pull the rear axle back when fitting a hogshead, the most I can get is 3/8", nowhere near enough to withdraw the U joint.

The recurring advice, that works safely, is put the car in high gear and pull it slowly. that way the transmission is working and keeping the oil flowing.
On a flat tow with someone in the driver's seat, the car can be let in and out of high gear at intervals to keep the transmission lubricated.

Allan from down under.

Post by **BE_ZERO_BE** » Sat Jul 08, 2023 9:06 pm

A member of the Spokane, WA club has a method of removing the rear wheels and installing a set of "Buddy Wheels."
The Buddy Wheels completely isolate the running gear from the road.
I don't recall the details but it didn't take him long to swap the wheels.
He towed his 26 roadster at freeway speeds from Oregon to Washington.
Hopefully he might chime in here.

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Sat Jul 08, 2023 9:18 pm

Bob

they are here: https://antiqueautoranch.com/montana500 ... index.html

Post by **BLB27** » Sat Jul 08, 2023 11:30 pm

I don't understand how "Buddy Wheels" work. Am I the only one!

Post by **BE_ZERO_BE** » Sat Jul 08, 2023 11:33 pm

Thanks Scott.

Post by **BE_ZERO_BE** » Sun Jul 09, 2023 3:01 pm

Bruce,

Check out the link from Scott.

The Buddy Wheels work best on a T with 26-27 wire wheels.
The wire wheel is removed.
The Buddy Wheel adapter is installed in place of the wire wheel.
The Buddy Wheel adapter has a stub axel with an independent hub.
A road wheel and tire are mounted to the independent hub.

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Sun Jul 09, 2023 3:39 pm

a small amount of extra research will show that the article works for the AUTHOR and other folks who have done it say it works for THEM, and NONE of them advocate that anyone else does it or if they DO decide to try it, it is at their OWN RISK.

I provided the link not as a suggestion but rather to answer Bob's question, that is all. I have not personally used the set up, have never wanted to use the set up, and would not use it come hell or high water. This is the sort of thing I prefer to marvel at and not participate in. There are those who have the creative mind, the skills to safely pull it off, and the testicles to use it. I don't possess enough of either of the 3 to do it myself.

I personally would advise the merely curious or the thrill-seekers to satisfy their craving along other pursuits.

Post by **SurfCityGene** » Sun Jul 09, 2023 6:38 pm

Bruce, To add more to the Pot

You did not say or give us any info about what kind of options might be on this T you are asking about. This is important since there can be many options and modifications to a T.

The late RDR Ralph Ricks advocated towing his early speedster/Picup on all 4 wheels with a tow bar. He did this many miles at freeway speeds and without problems Except One when attempting a U Turn.

His T like mine is equipped with an Aux tranny which can be set in Neutral. This prevents any rotation of the internals forward of the transmission. A car with a Warford could easily be towed with CARE in netural.

I never added this to my list of why I like the Warfords but maybe I should? YMMV

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Sun Jul 09, 2023 7:58 pm

Gene

this is a fresh amatuer restoration of a very nice original car

the question is the result of anticipatory jitters for a first drive

my first drive took me through a questionable part of town to get to a "T" gathering. That 5 mile jaunt wore me out to the point of exhaustion, so I do understand anxiety. Knowing what I know now, I can state with confidence that first-timer jitters are usually for naught.

Post by **JohnM** » Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:10 pm

I am amazed at the number of posts on this subject. We all know that nothing gets lubricated unless the flywheel is spinning. You can push or pull a T for a half a block or so, otherwise put it on a trailer or truck with all four wheels off the ground.