You tell me

[Dollisdad]

5” stretch frame with 5” stretch torpedo hood. Show me what you would do for a body.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Early frame (at least the back part of it?), and the brass radiator and matching hood? For a body, I would go with something minimalist along the lines of Ford's "Specials" from 1910 and 1911. The extra long hood would give something like that a really wicked look!
I am more wondering what to use for an engine in something like that? Maybe get the cutters and welders going crazy to build a six cylinder model T?
One could try to duplicate Edsel Ford's early six speedster. A few good photos exist of it in a couple of its modified forms. But this probably isn't enough of a good start for that idea.

[kmatt2]

That long hood would go wonderfully with something like Rob’s original 300 CID Ford Special engine, to bad there is only one of those that survived. Wayne’s idea of a 6 cylinder T is good but a lot of work. The long hood just screams Model T Speedster and who better to build one with a long hood than Rootlieb . Are you moving the T motor back the 5 inches with an extra cross member or extending the peddles the 5 inches ?

[speedytinc]

Speedster body

My personal favorite look with a long hood.

[Atomic Amish]

To Wayne's point: This is my ideal T.

[jiminbartow]

On October 16, 2011, Mike Walker posted this picture in a thread about how to make a “1911 Torpedo long hood” Model T. Lotsa leg room. Rootlieb was mentioned in the thread. Jim Patrick

PS. I think it would look better and more proportional if the back seat were left where it is but the door opening to the back seat reduced in width. Also, the back seat could be raised a bit like the T’s of old to give the back seat passengers a better view. A brass windshield would also enhance its’ appearance.

[tdump]

Longer frame means stock drive shaft length and a aux trans mission!
Could you post a couple pics of where the extension was added

[pkhammer]

Sacrilege to go for the look of Louis Chevrolet's racer?

[Dollisdad]

Well, I moved this to Ohio and have started to place some parts on the chassis to get a feel for what to do for a body. I like the basic feel of the spacing, but it needs a body platform of some type. Step in or step over. Flat dash or scuttle cowl. Tool box or ? on the tail end. Suggestions most welcome.

[Dollisdad]

[Dollisdad]

[Wayne Sheldon]

A simple floor/platform, cut down the firewall a little bit? I like it! Speedsters aren't supposed to be great travel vehicles, lack of luggage space an all? Although certainly Ed and Karen Archer would disagree with that!
What is the reason to be given for the long hood? You could have a six cylinder model T engine built for it? (Something I always wanted to do?)

[warwick_preval]

Hay mate what about this one cheers Warwick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzadwfweSpE

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

[tdump]

how do you keep that shop so clean!//?????
I like this If I had found a aux transmission for my speedster i thought of stretching the frame instead of cutting the drive shaft.

[Dollisdad]

Wayne, I originally built this car to fill a need I had.

But that use has changed. And with the first car having a 5” stretched wheelbase, the car to replace it, also needed the 5” stretch. So that is how this car came into being. I used two frames and put the 5” in front of the firewall because I didn’t want to alter the drive train. So a 5” longer hood was a simple fix.

Warwick, you can see I already have one done to that style.

Ed, I remember seeing the picture of the dark blue car and thinking “What a beautiful car!”. I have not seen the red one before.

Mack, before I learned anything about cars, my father taught me how to push a broom sweeping out his body shop. He would always say to me “If you want clean work, keep a clean shop! Must a heard that a thousand times.

[John Codman]

I like where you are going with the speedster. I'm taking you at your word that the parts are there so you can get a feel for where things belong. The only significant change that I would make is to find a slightly smaller oval gas tank - but that's JMO. It's your car and you should do whatever you like the best.

[warwick_preval]

OK what about a bustle tailed speedster. Oh i sure like the way WE built the War Chief what a beauty cheers Warwick.

[John Heaman]

What you are doing looks great!

[Allan]

When I built my 1917 shooting brake, I put together parts of two frames to extend it to accommodate a KC Warford, leaving the drivetrain standard. The join was made between the running board supports, angled at 45 degrees and welded. Then an inside gusset plate was added between the running board supports. This plate was riveted at the running board supports and the body to frame brackets, with additional rivets either side of the welded join.

For those contemplating their own frame extension.

Allan from down under.

[Dollisdad]

The deck design of Edsels car is similar to what I have in mind. Edsels car is a 09/10 with cowling on a quasi commercial roadster deck. I don’t believe it has a stretched hood but it’s hard to tell. It appears the steering wheel is reversed. I like the concept.

[Burger in Spokane]

First of all, where is all the clutter in your shop ? How can you get
anything done that way ???

Personally, I dislike boat and bullet tails on these cars. Period correct
or not, aesthetically they looked chopped off or someone ran out of good
ideas. I much prefer a ducktailed back end finish. Much more smooth and
"flowing" to the eye. By 1930 it was pretty standard design, but on an early
car, it would be racy and smooth.

Just my .02

[Wayne Sheldon]

If I recall correctly in the early 1910s, Edsel had a custom six cylinder model T speedster. There are several stories and legends about it, I am not sure which ones may or may not be true. It was apparently rebodied, and altered a few times, with different fenders and radiators.

[Dollisdad]

I decided to go along these lines.

So I ripped a pair of stringers 2 1/4 x 1 1/2.

Glued in pieces to reach the body to firewall brackets.

Cut curve in front and drill body mounts.

[Dollisdad]

Look at mock-up positions.

Start seat riser after cutting 7 degree taper along outside of stringers and riser.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Looks like you are heading in a good direction! Even if you hide a stock engine under that long hood, it would be a great speedster and a lot of fun!

It is a personal thing with me. I like to see earlier engines in early looking speedsters. And I tend to prefer them kept closer to their apparent era. But that is silly me.
But it is your car! Do what makes it most enjoyable to you.

[RajoRacer]

Nice work Tom ! How tall are you ? I'd have to move the seat up a foot for me !

[Dollisdad]

Set the supports for the gas tank.

And closed the ends of the seat riser.

Start to put floor on rear deck.

[Dollisdad]

Drill mounts for gas tank.

Finish deck and end cap.

Drill mounts for tool box.

[Dollisdad]

I think it’s getting there.

[Wayne Sheldon]

That is going to be a good looker!

[Dollisdad]

Set the floorboards.

Set the risers.

Set the sill caps.

[Dollisdad]

Set the corners.

And forward sweepers

A little clean up,

[Dollisdad]

and I’ll make the upright floorboards when I get the pedals reshaped.

All the framework is Ash and the deck,floorboards,heel and back panel are poplar.

[Dollisdad]

Floor and hood sills done.

Now I need to find someone with a 8’ brake so I can start to skin the deck. In the meantime I’ll start to build the frame works for the seats.

[Dollisdad]

Making progress on seats

[Tbird]

Great progress Tom! It's coming together. Love the frame mounted carbide generator!

[Dollisdad]

Seat frames done

Pulled patterns and transferred to sheet

Cut out skins adding 1/16” to allow for misalignment on my part,

[Dollisdad]

Clamped skin to the frame on one end and pulled it around and clamped as it made contact. Pretty happy with the trial fit. Material is 20 ga. cr.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Very nice workmanship! Going to look wonderful.

[Joe Bell]

Looks better than the last time i saw it! Nice work on the sheetmetal, who did it? just joking!

[Art M]

I really like your choice of the body design. I always wonder how seats like those are fabricated ever since I saw Tim Wrenns former 1912 pickup truck.

Very nice design snd work. I'm anxious to see it went complete and on a tour.

Art Mirtes

[John E. Guitar]

Nice work Tom!

Thanks for posting the progress photos. This is the kind of stuff that makes the forum worth looking at.

[jiminbartow]

Beautiful woodwork. Poplar?

[Dollisdad]

Jim, all the floorboards are poplar. The deck and seat skeletons are ash. Here in Ohio, on Facebook marketplace there are quite a few people who process and sell rough cut lumber off their own land or others. So I’ve been buying 6/4, 5/4, and 4/4 rough material, so I can plane it to my needs. Ash is getting harder to find due to the Emerald ash borer which has destroyed millions of ash trees. You can buy green if you have the time to air dry and save money. Otherwise kiln or aged works best.

[Dollisdad]

So here’s what I use to treat the sheetmetal, to seal the sheetmetal, to nail the skin to the frame and screw the moldings on.

Here’s the skins drying.

[Dollisdad]

I drill two holes at the center bottom and countersink them to better sink the nail heads. Then center the skin best I can and proceed to nail the skin on.

The left side came out pretty good.

The right side not so good. My misalignment.

So I had to grind the sheetmetal down to the wood. That’s why I oversize the skin.

[Dollisdad]

Then I put the moulding around the bottom after I anneal the rear portion of the moulding.

And around the top.

Then form the front corners around a front wheel hub.

Takes around 4-5 times annealing to get it to form. It will buckle and you have to tap it flat between annealings, but it comes out flat in the end.

[Dollisdad]

And fits pretty good.

Then bent the up swings. I use the paper pattern I pulled for the skin as a template. I made a wood buck to bend them around as I could not find anything the right shape. You see where I have scribbled on the moulding with a sharpe. That is the area I want to anneal. So using a hand held torch I evenly heat that area until the markings disappear. Then it is ready to bend. Like I said it will take 4-5 times to complete the curve.

[Dollisdad]

This is what I use to anneal.

Ready to cut the angle.

Almost done.

What was leftover from 24ft. of moulding.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Beautiful workmanship! And nice tutorial.

[Dollisdad]

I like the look it has. I ground off the nails that went thru and ground off the screw heads. Now I need to fill the heads and get them ready towards paint. I’m debating wether to try upholstery as I have never done that. We will see.

[Rob]

Looks great!!!!

[dobro1956]

Very nice. .......

[Kaiser]

Great stuff ! Do you have the same, that after accomplishing a nice fabrication job you hessitate to cover it in paint ? I like to look at it as long as i can and keep procastrinating the paintwork

[speedytinc]

Thats beautiful. Quite a touch of class.

[Dollisdad]

So back to work. Got the wheels painted(with a brush.

Then got the tires mounted.

So time to skin the body. I start by routing the edges where I want the sheet metal level with the wood.

[Dollisdad]

Cut the blank for the side.

Since I don’t have a 8’ brake at home, I sandwich a 1” flange between two 3/16” strips and knock down with a rawhide hammer, checking to see it is approx. 7 degrees short of 90.

Then clamp it to the woodwork.

Next I scribe the edge of the woodwork.

[Dollisdad]

Then I add 3/8” to the scribe lines.

I use an electric hand shear to cut out the part.

Using the strips I knock the straight stretches up with the rawhide and then straighten the edge with a steel face hammer and dollie.

[tdump]

I am in awe. Much better quality work than I can do.

[Dollisdad]

I pie cut the bottom so it will sweep inward at the front and bend the end cap.

Next I test fit the panels on the skeleton.

[Dollisdad]

[Dollisdad]

Today I took these patterns down to my steel shop and they are going to plasma cut me some 3/16 plates so I can knock up the seat riser curves and the floorboard riser sweeps. I will also pickup a piece of pipe to shape the radius for the rear deck to seat riser. Little by little.

[Stephen1915]

Great thread! I’m enjoying this progress!

[Dollisdad]

Got the tail panel made.

Next knocked down a 3/8” flange and clamped a 4” pvc behind it and pulled the sheetmetal around it to give it the upsweep.

And check rough fit.

[Dollisdad]

Took the sheetmetal off and sealing the woodwork with black lacquer.

Now waiting for plates from the steel guys.

[Allan]

Tom, I love the way you work. Each little bit makes for a delightful whole. Your panel work is exemplary.

I had to bend aluminium moldings for my 1912 van and my 1925 wide body roadster, and used a wooden former like yours for each, but with a slight difference in technique. I cut the formers to the OUTSIDE diameter of the curve needed. Then I used my table saw to cut a grove around the curve. The cut was set to the depth of the molding width. I had to do two cuts side by side to get the groove as wide as the molding was thick.

I did not have to anneal my 1/2" wide molding. Within the confines of the groove, it had nowhere to go in the third dimension, so I could just pull it around by hand. Others may find this helpful.

Keep up the excellent pictures. we can all benefit from your work.

Allan from down under.

[Dollisdad]

Thanks Allen and everyone else for your kind words and compliments. I have tried to do this project with a minimum of mechanical help, instead using hand tools and methods that most everyone has access to. You can get the results you’re looking for, it just takes a little longer. And there is a certain satisfaction that comes from hand work. And I find that with the process slowed down I think of other changes to incorporate into the overall project. I sometimes have to force myself to get back on these projects, but after a few minutes I’m happy as a clam and wouldn’t trade this for anything. It’s my form of therapy. And as Allen showed, there are many ways to get the same job done and I’m just trying to pass along the things I’ve learned. After all, somebody showed me.

[DustySpokes]

This is all very inspirational indeed Tom ! - Dusty

[Dollisdad]

Ok, well I got the corner plates finally. Clamp them in place and knock the material up.

Then fit the finished panels.

[Dollisdad]

Then acid treat and prime the panels.

I routed the rear corners and inserted small corner shields to back up when I weld the corners shut.

Then start to nail panels on starting with the bottom.

[Dollisdad]

Then do the topside.

When I put the rear deck top piece on I shoot some liquid nails under it to kill any noise that may arise from rpm vibration

ThenI bolt the tank down to press the skin to the framework. I will leave this now fora few days to make sure the bond has cured.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Is that the gasoline tank you are going to use there? Just curious, it would look great!
Wonderful, beautiful, work you do!
Thank you for sharing it here.

[Joe Bell]

You have been busy since i was there a couple weeks ago, you will be touring with it this summer the rate you are going!

[Dollisdad]

Thanks for the comments. Installed the inbody mounting brackets and slid the deck back on the chassis. I must have mixed the brackets up, as some didn’t want to line up easily so I had to rework them All the 3 hole bracket bolts had to have the heads bent to flush fit the side of the body.

Welded up the rear corners, cut the tank opening and now it’s ready to make the trim pieces.

[Dollisdad]

On to trim. Cut out all the blanks.

Glue up the blocks for end sweeps.

Cut and fit up.

[Dollisdad]

Fitting sweeps.

Fitting pieces together.

Trimmed and fit.

Hope to finish today.

[Dollisdad]

Well, I think that the fabrication is pretty much done (seat bottom doors still to come). Still some work on the front and rear suspension to adjust the ride height and steering connections. I’m going to try my hand at upholstery and I’ll take pics, good or bad and share them later. But for now here is a look at the final vision that you guys helped steer me to. Thanks for the words of encouragement and I hope you learned something that can help you on your project.

[Dollisdad]

[Dollisdad]

[Wayne Sheldon]

Looking good! And truly inspirational!

Thank you for all the postings.

[blauvelt]

Really enjoy the build and your attention to balance. Where did you find the quarter round molding?

[Dollisdad]

Are you talking about the moulding around the seats? If so, it’s technically called half round oval and I had it made by a moulding company. What you buy at the big box and marine and hardware stores has small holes in them and I always had to drill out and recountersink all the holes. So I had moulding made that accepted #10 wood screws. You can get it at Rootlieb Inc by calling Michelle at 209-632-2203.

[blauvelt]

Thank you for the lead, will give a call.

[Atomic Amish]

This is an incredible amount of knowledge shared in one post. Thank you SO MUCH for this! My son and I are looking at doing something very similar (but with a Model A) this summer, so this is extremely helpful!

Are you going to paint it? Or is that gray the final color? I'm hoping one day to build a T speedster in Ford tractor colors of gray and red.

v/r,
jason

[Dollisdad]

Jason, I am going to paint it. Blue and black. With a brush. But first I’m going to try a simple smooth leather finish on the seats. However spring has brought a list of honey do’s so it will be back burnered for awhile. But I’m anxious to see it finished.

[Atomic Amish]

Right on! Looking forward to the final product. I know it will be a grand slam!

[babychadwick]

Have you considered brush painting with marine considered paint? They have a single part paint that flows and levels out very nicely as often boats are repainted by brush instead of spraying. I have found you can get very good results spraying untainted thru a cheap harbor freight hvlp gun with little to no overspray.