Studs vs. Bolts?

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
It's Bill
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:41 pm
First Name: Bill
Last Name: Hoffer
Location: Mars, PA
MTFCA Number: 32571
MTFCI Number: 24364
Board Member Since: 2016

Studs vs. Bolts?

Post by It's Bill » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:38 am

Hello, I have been reading up on heads and engine assembly, and came across a post that said every few years the head should be removed to clean out carbon from the combustion chamber. This is said to lead to wear on the block threads from removing and replacing the head bolts repeatedly. Does anyone use studs and nuts to fasten the head, or is this bad practice? When the block threads are finally shot, are helicoils the answer? When rebuilding an engine, is it good practice to install helicoils and be done with it?

Thanks for any advice, Bill


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6431
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Studs vs. Bolts?

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:16 am

Fuel and oil are so superior today that removing the head to remove carbon is not necessary. Studs are great, and superior, mechanically, to bolts. However, just try to remove the head when it's trapped on it's stud at the rear of the engine, though. You either have to pull the engine forward or raise the body to remove the head from over the stud.

If the engine is running OK, leave it alone.
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured

User avatar

Humblej
Posts: 1690
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:23 pm
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Humble
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Canadian built coupe, 1924 TT C-cab, survivor 1924 roadster
Location: Charlevoix, Mi
MTFCA Number: 28034
Board Member Since: 2006

Re: Studs vs. Bolts?

Post by Humblej » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:59 am

I agree with Scott, for many Ts the firewall overhangs the rear of the engine and there is no room to lift the head over the rear stud. The model A engine has studs instead of head bolts. I can tell you from personal experience, removing a head under normal circumstances is a chore, with rusty studs it is a nightmare requiring heat, wedges, hammer, and a lot of cuss words.

Helicoils are a great fix for a stripped block, but makes no sense to fix something that isnt broke.


RGould1910
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:16 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Gould
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 touring, 1912 roadster , 1927 roadster
Location: Folsom, CA

Re: Studs vs. Bolts?

Post by RGould1910 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:43 am

Really hard to get the studs to line up exactly with the holes in the block. Remember there are 15 to get aligned and they are a close fit. Sometimes its hard to get even the six studs aligned on an early DS spool. 15 would be a nightmare.


RGould1910
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:16 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Gould
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 touring, 1912 roadster , 1927 roadster
Location: Folsom, CA

Re: Studs vs. Bolts?

Post by RGould1910 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:44 am

Really hard to get the studs to line up exactly with the holes in the block. Remember there are 15 to get aligned and they are a close fit. Sometimes its hard to get even the six studs aligned on an early DS spool. 15 would be a nightmare.

User avatar

walber
Posts: 214
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:55 pm
First Name: Walt
Last Name: Berdan
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '18 Speedster had 25 touring and 26 coupe
Location: Bellevue, WA
MTFCA Number: 16421

Re: Studs vs. Bolts?

Post by walber » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:10 pm

Concern about clearance of the head vs. firewall is real. I've only used bolts on stock T's but with the Fronty on my speedster I went with studs. No issues and sadly have had to remove the head a couple times over the years. I put anti-seize on the studs when they are installed and when I need to pull the head, I first remove the studs and eliminate any binding problems. I don't happen to have a specific purpose stud puller so simply double nut the studs and they come out easily. You could do the same with a stock head but it obviously won't be correct (if that matters to you).


modernbeat
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:09 pm
First Name: Jason
Last Name: McDaniel
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 Roadster / 1926 Pickup / 1926 Express-Camper
Location: Dallas, TX
MTFCA Number: 50306
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Studs vs. Bolts?

Post by modernbeat » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:42 pm

I'm building an Express body for my '26, with a flat firewall. So no overhang to trap the head on the rear studs. And a hotted up engine.
After cleaning the threads and measuring the depth of the holes in the block, the head gasket thickness, the Prus head thickness, and the nuts and washers I want to use, I'll be using Milodon 81255 4.25" studs. They are 7/16-14 thread at the bottom and 7/16-20 at the top. I'll be gluing them into the block with some Indian Head gasket shellac. This allows full thread engagement with the block, and the fine thread nut on the top allows a slightly tighter torque, and an easier torque process.
Jason McDaniel

User avatar

walber
Posts: 214
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:55 pm
First Name: Walt
Last Name: Berdan
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '18 Speedster had 25 touring and 26 coupe
Location: Bellevue, WA
MTFCA Number: 16421

Re: Studs vs. Bolts?

Post by walber » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:10 pm

Jason,

Just curious, why glue them in?

Walt


SurfCityGene
Posts: 600
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:00 pm
First Name: Gene
Last Name: Carrothers
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 Torpedo Roadster
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
MTFCA Number: 22905
MTFCI Number: 23068
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Studs vs. Bolts?

Post by SurfCityGene » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:24 pm

That'll work fine but like was mentioned before you'll have a real fun time getting it off maybe with the studs. Yes you will get a bit more squeeze on that gasket. Some guy I know prefer studs if they don't have a firewall issue. I don't think its needed with proper length bolts and our high compression heads.
YMMV
1912 Torpedo Roadster


modernbeat
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:09 pm
First Name: Jason
Last Name: McDaniel
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 Roadster / 1926 Pickup / 1926 Express-Camper
Location: Dallas, TX
MTFCA Number: 50306
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Studs vs. Bolts?

Post by modernbeat » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:59 pm

I know all the issues that studs bring. Had them on a few Model A engines and all of my V8 Flatheads. Repairs become a huge hassle.

I glue them in to give the coarse threads more purchase. The gasket shellac works well for that, and is easier to get free than Loctite.
Jason McDaniel

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic