I've finally found a Model 78 tail light, but it needs some attention..... I'm hoping someone here is more familiar with the details early tail lights than I am!!
I need to install a round red lens into the rear panel of an early Jno Brown tail light (Model 78), and a blue lens on the side panel.
1. How do you replace the glass without messing up the brass retaining rim?
2. The lenses are 3 1/8" diameter. I need to find a blue lens... does anybody know the size of the blue lens on a 1913/14 tail light? It appears to be the same size as the 1912.
3. It looks like all of the sides and the reflector are the same as a model 105 (1912). Does anybody know if the lenses and reflector are the same for a 1913/14?
My reflector is well worn and needs to be replated. Does anybody know somewhere I can have this done? Is a 1913/14 reflector the same? I'm thinking I may need to just find a reflector with better plating than mine from a donor lamp, if a 13/14 will work....
Thanks in advance!
Early tail light help please!
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Topic author - Posts: 338
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:59 pm
- First Name: Gary
- Last Name: London
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Re: Early tail light help please!
Hello Gary:
Bad news is that it is not possible to remove or replace the #78 lens without wrecking this brass retainer plate. The lens was rolled into the plate as it was being formed, so some amount of this retaining diameter would need to be removed in order to extract the old lens and load the new. Two options are (A) turn a cup-shaped brass cap that contains the lens and solder this over the original retaining boss (looks like a repair), or (B) spin a new plate with the lens rolled in after forming the retaining boss area, like originals are made (See Youtube created back when I conducted a DIY Brass presentation at MTFCA Museum).
13/14 Brown lenses are 3 1/8" diameter however, these later Blue and Red lenses have inner concentric ribs, where the #78's are smooth, as I recall.
Rolling new plates and then rolling the lens into the plates requires tooling, however this can be accomplished with hardwood forms, and the plates can then be turned on a conventional lathe. I had a similar dilemma with #105 Brown plates and lenses, so I wound up making a batch of these.
The reflector can be removed and re-plated, except this is a ton of work and expense for very little aesthetic return. I have hand polished these interior surfaces to where this completely removes all of the plating, and if you work it long enough, you now have a mirror like brass surface that looks excellent from the outside of the lamp. Only you will ever know this shiny reflector surface is yellow and not white metal.
Regards,
Scott
Bad news is that it is not possible to remove or replace the #78 lens without wrecking this brass retainer plate. The lens was rolled into the plate as it was being formed, so some amount of this retaining diameter would need to be removed in order to extract the old lens and load the new. Two options are (A) turn a cup-shaped brass cap that contains the lens and solder this over the original retaining boss (looks like a repair), or (B) spin a new plate with the lens rolled in after forming the retaining boss area, like originals are made (See Youtube created back when I conducted a DIY Brass presentation at MTFCA Museum).
13/14 Brown lenses are 3 1/8" diameter however, these later Blue and Red lenses have inner concentric ribs, where the #78's are smooth, as I recall.
Rolling new plates and then rolling the lens into the plates requires tooling, however this can be accomplished with hardwood forms, and the plates can then be turned on a conventional lathe. I had a similar dilemma with #105 Brown plates and lenses, so I wound up making a batch of these.
The reflector can be removed and re-plated, except this is a ton of work and expense for very little aesthetic return. I have hand polished these interior surfaces to where this completely removes all of the plating, and if you work it long enough, you now have a mirror like brass surface that looks excellent from the outside of the lamp. Only you will ever know this shiny reflector surface is yellow and not white metal.
Regards,
Scott
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- First Name: Kim
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Re: Early tail light help please!
Gary, Im not sure its all that grim. I've seen lenses replaced that look fairly decent. True the best method is to spin the lenses into new pieces. There is a guy up in the California gold country, might be called California metal spinning, im sure his name is Jeff. He made a run of JB #85 founts for me that were real nice. He may be able to help you out.
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Re: Early tail light help please!
west coast metal spinning, Coloma, CA
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- First Name: Charley
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- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913
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Re: Early tail light help please!
i wanted to compare my 13 115 tail light. 1 1/2 hr to find it,in a trunk in the top of the shop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!charley