MTFCA Forum

MKossor

Did you remove the roller? Some CAM shafts are drilled all the way through allowing the roller to be installed 180 degrees off (i.e. Backwards)

MKossor

Answers: Yes, +/- 1 degree variation @ 1000 RPM

MKossor

Great response and almost caught up on orders, thanks for everyone's patience. Thanks MTFCA!

MKossor

Dennis, Yes, it was processed but the email address bounced.

MKossor

Thanks for the suggestion Dave, perhaps next year.

MKossor

Magneto Test Option for the ECCT Half off Labor Day Special! Magneto Test Result.JPG Add Magneto Test capability to your ECCT to check magneto output is sufficient to properly operate Model T coils. Instructions and software needed to enable the magneto test function will be sent via e-mail after p...

MKossor

Rick, it seems apparent from your posts that your 1925 engine not starting may not be rooted in your coils not working. You should follow the suggestions to clean the timer contacts and verify all coils fire in order (1, 2, 4, 3, 1, 2, 4, 3...) as you rotate the crank repeatedly as you are now aware...

MKossor

Rick, Just to be clear; The Model T crank requires 2 complete 360 degree turns for the engine to cycle through each cylinder firing (coil buzzing) position. The coils should buzz in sequence as you turn the crank: cylinder 1 then 2 then 4 then cylinder 3 as you complete 2 full turns of the crank. Th...

MKossor

Nice job Matt, the project has come a long way. Surely you have expanded your knowledge considerably and will have the opportunity to learn much more.

MKossor

Ron, the Forum deserves justification for your accusations discrediting my technical explanations or you owe me an apology for your unsubstantiated outburst. I would welcome either. Leaving the good folks here dazed and confused not knowing what to believe about the Model T ignition system operation...

MKossor

Ron, very disappointed with your belligerent tone, unsubstantiated accusations and disparaging remarks of my technical knowledge. Concerned I posted incorrect information, I asked a knowledgeable peer to review my post for accuracy; concise and accurate was the opinion with one exception. My stateme...

MKossor

Philip reported his no-load magneto voltage measurements dropped about 5V when he operated his car on magneto. That is a lot to drop, however, the magneto output is extremely noisy when operating on magneto so the voltage measurements may be skewed significantly. I agree a repeat of his original mea...

MKossor

Neil, Unfortunately, HCCT vs ECCT test comparisons are a waste of time as they are based on entirely different principles for adjusting Model T coils. The HCCT method is well documented and should be used as the guide. Best results are achieved when all 4 coils have identical physical and electrical...

MKossor

Jim, your perceived inaccuracies are indeed just that. Here is a link to a great article that explains the Ford Model T ignition system and spark timing while operating on magneto that I believe you will find very insightful: http://www.funprojects.com/pdf/Model%20T%20Ignition%20System-Final%20Artit...

MKossor

Neil, Apologies if I missed your inquiries about the Time To Fire (TTF) method of coil point adjustment. The TTF method of coil point adjustment is done by applying a fast pulse of electricity to a coil at rest and measuring the Time it takes to produce a spark. For example, the coil current rises n...

MKossor

Hi Ron, Good to see you active on the Forum again! I re-read my post and believe it to be accurate but acknowledge we all make mistakes. I certainly would not have intentionally posted false or misleading information. Please let us know what I stated that you feel was incorrect. Thanks!

MKossor

This IS a discussion Forum; I thought everyone's honest experience relative to the discussion is welcome and adds value. Thought police comments, not so much.

MKossor

Philip, a few comments and suggestions for your magneto performance investigation: Coil Adjustment Comments When were the coils last checked on the ECCT? What was the multi-spark firing consistency test result? Coil point adjustment does drift with time/usage and is vulnerable to mis-adjustment if n...

MKossor

Very sorry to learn this sad news. Condolances to the family and forum friends.

MKossor

Sorry to learn of your magneto woes. By shorted I presume you mean the magneto output post got shorted to ground and then there is no magneto output. I'm not sure if shorting the magneto output to engine ground will result in demagnitization of the magnets but doubt it will damage the windings. Othe...

MKossor

Checked the rod bearings and shims because I noticed an increase in engine noise during coasting. Good thing I did. All rod bearings loose back/forth play with all shims removed and excessive Left/Right play (crank out of round?) Rod cap for number 2 was missing a chunk of Babbit. That's a show stop...

MKossor

Leaking vent repair went smooth. Removed the bowl and float, blew out the ball valve (thought I had the needle/seat type). Replaced the gasket and re-assembled. All appears well. Drained the fuel tank, removed the shut off valve and found a couple large pieces of debris in the fuel tank blocking fue...

MKossor

That's another good suggestion. A friend told me about that lube and gave me some to try and this occasion would be a good opportunity. Thanks for the suggestion.

MKossor

Thanks for the Rx Dave but plan to take the holistic approach endorsed by Scott and Mark. ;) Will try to drop the bowel and clean he Needle and Seat later today. Also figure it a good idea to check and clean the sentiment screen also since something may have made it past into the fuel bowel. Will re...

MKossor

Thanks Scott

MKossor

Vaporizer fuel bowel vent (M) started leaking gas sitting not run in a couple of days in garage with fuel shut off. Does this indicate a float or needle valve issue?

I am inclined to remove the fuel bowl and clean the needle and seat. Am I on the right track?

MKossor

E-Timer Turns 10 This Year! E-Timer Proto Type B20 Used at the Henry Ford v1.jpg Hard to believe those installed 10 years ago still run with the same precision today as the day installed The ECCT Turns 5 This Year ECCT Turns 5.jpg Introduced many to the art of coil adjustment with ease and precisio...

MKossor

Neil, I am not knocking the HCCT, I was responding to your comment which is not supported by the test data I have taken and contrary to the experience of others as explained in my post. Regarding your questions: A typical Model T magneto will produce a voltage output in the range of 8V to 28V measur...

MKossor

The HCCT is a wonderful piece of automotive history and innovation for testing Model T coils developed back in the day. It remains a viable tool for adjusting coils to the satisfaction of users today. Neil Martin wrote: "If done properly they" (HCCT adjusted coils) "would be the better choice for a ...

MKossor

Dennis, a more recent approach is a Vane actuator used by the I-Timer. Rather than a roller, flapper or brush; the 4 magnets tell the Timer which coil to activate and the windows cut in the outer diameter tell the timer when to activate the coil without any physical contact so its maintenance free a...

MKossor

The Nu-Rex Generator Cut Out (Semi-Conductor Type) js NOT a voltage regulator. It does not "put out" up to 20A; I believe it is just a Diode cut out capable of passing up to 20A of current through it which is apparently the same current ratings as the original cut out contacts. The FP VR is a comple...

MKossor

Charles J wrote: ↑
Sat May 16, 2020 6:43 pm
Would like to hear from people who have used one

Interesting the most verbose response from outside the OP's target audience. Thanks to the I-Timer users who shred their honest experience with it.

MKossor

Thank you for the all the wonderful feed back. Very please to know so many found the Webinar informative and helpful. Time well spent sharing knowledge and information that helps others enjoy the hobby more. Have a safe and enjoyable touring season.

MKossor

Keith, insufficient data. Define "does not work" ; I assume it does not generate any spark but does it : Draw current? Do the points open periodically ( ie buzz)? Does the secondary measure around 3200 Ohms If so, could be arcing internally ( Read URSOL) Is there excessive arcing at the points when ...

MKossor

Very sorry to learn this sad news. Enjoyed reading Herm's posts and the knowledge he shared with the Forum. Condolances to family and friends.

MKossor

Bobt, wish you contacted me first if you encountered difficulty with E-Timer installation or operation. Sluggish/sub-par performance is always an indication of insufficient timer advance that is typically easily remedied. The E-Timer provides the best Model T engine ignition performance possible wit...

MKossor

Dave, the ECCT capacitor test is very sensitive to leakage so Capacitor test results can easily be skewed as a result. The most important detail is the Capacitor Value - should be 0.47uF but can vary (+/- 20%) so Capacitor Test results displaying the Value in the range of 0.33uF to 0.56uF is accepta...

MKossor

I received notice that MTFCA Webinars will be subject to the same rules that apply to the Forum. That means vendors, suppliers and developers of Model T products or services offered for sale commercially are ineligible to provide content for MTFCA hosted Webinars. The coil testing/tuning topics I pr...

MKossor

Thanks for all the replies. It appears sufficient interest does exist to begin preparation. Since this is an interactive activity, I would like to invite a few folks to participate by checking their inventory of spare Model T parts for coils with used sets of coil points (later production points wit...

MKossor

Proposed Coil Testing/Tuning Webinar in the future if there is sufficient interest to warrant preparation and hosting. Proposed Topics Coil Testing Capacitor Value/Leakage - When to replace capacitor Coil Firing Time/Consistency - When to adjust points Coil Point Inspection/Refurbishing - When to re...

MKossor

Neil has it right (Ding, Ding, Ding). On first thought, mistakenly thought the maximum (peak) output voltage would occur in position C because that is the position for in car re-charge when you zap the magneto coils and thought the output would be reciprocal - NOT! The maximum magneto voltage output...

MKossor

Poppie, not sure I understand your answers as they pertain to magneto waveform points A,B and C above. Please clarify.

MKossor

Yes, but what are the fly wheel magnet positions with respect to the magneto coils corresponding to the magneto output voltage waveform? A. Maximum (peak +V) positive voltage output B. Maximum (peak -V) negative voltage output C. Zero (0) magneto voltage output Just trivia for anyone remembering ele...

MKossor

Final answer? Is he right?

MKossor

Magneto Trivia question: What are the physical positions of the flywheel magnets with respect to the field coils for maximum (peak) output voltage and minimum (zero) output Voltage?

MKossor

Tony, here's the math: 1000 RPM / 60 sec = 16.667 RPS (Revolutions Per Second) Each engine revolution produces 16 magneto pulses: 8 positive and 8 negative pulses = 8 complete cycles per engine revolution so Magneto output frequency equals engine speed (in RPS) x 8 so that is: 16.6667 x 8 = 133.333H...

MKossor

Matt, great minds think a like. I started on an " E-Dash " project a while back: a magnetic mount, 2 line LCD display powered by 2 wire connection to the Magneto post that would simultaneously display: Speed (MPH) Magneto Voltage Engine RPM Engine Temperature Micro controller based, of course, so MP...

MKossor

A unique feature of the Anco (aka Anderson) timer is the ability to adjust the activation timing of the individual coils by bending the internal prongs. This is typical done statically. All this effort is of course moot if the individual coils are not all adjusted for equal and consistent firing Tim...

MKossor

Steve is great, very knowledgable and helpful when ordering parts for every job I have done on my 1927 Touring. Thanks Steve!

MKossor

Thanks for the additional information Philip. Not the capacitor since it is new. Are there missing sparks during the multi-Spark test? If so, then the coil may be sparking internally which is typically a non-repairable fault. That can happen if the coil was ever operated without a suitable spark gap...

MKossor

What do you mean by Odd readings? A screen shot of the capacitor test, coil dwell test and multi-spark test results would indeed be helpful. Did the capacitor test results indicate proper value (0.47uF)? A coil with a bad capacitor (low value for example) can be adjusted for near normal firing time ...

MKossor

I too hope this is over by Hershey. I found this article on Social Distancing helped put things in perspective for me. https://www.ariadnelabs.org/resources/articles/news/social-distancing-this-is-not-a-snow-day/ We have not experienced a Pandemic like this in a long time and unfortunately, many fol...

MKossor

The E-Timer is an Electronic Timer for the Model T housed in a high quality reproduction Ford timer case and is immune to timing cover misalignment. It uses the original coils and original wiring without any modifications to the car or wiring. The coil points are bypassed with tiny fuse jumpers so y...

MKossor

Pleased to affirm no involvement in this incident.

MKossor

Great and welcome news!

MKossor

While the concept of inductive discharge spark ignition is fairly simple to understand, attaining good engine performance in the Model T requires a little more knowledge and skill. That is because the multiple coils in the Model T each must be properly adjusted for equal and consistent dwell time to...

MKossor

Bobt, Short Answer: Adjusting coils on a running Model T is NOT recommended for 2 main reasons: 1. You cannot effectively adjust coils for good engine performance 2. You CAN get shocked touching the coil points with the coils operating Long Answer: Good Model T engine performance requires properly t...

MKossor

I took the 5 coils to a friends ECCT and they all failed. Capacitors Indicated POOR [/size] Neil, the most important detail of the ECCT capacitor test is the capacitor Value; it should read between 0.47uF and 0.56uF. If so, the capacitor does Not need replacing. A Poor result with proper value read...

MKossor

Scott, Your reference 3V magneto output is actually low based on my test data; my Allan HCCT peak voltage output is 5V cranking at 60 RPM (1 revolution per second which I would say is on par with hand crank starting given only 1/4 turn is turned at that rate). I checked my HCCT test data and noted ...

MKossor

Scott said " the coil is a current-operated device" but later said "You're never going to get more than around 3V from hand cranking" regarding concerns about difficult hand cranking coils adjusted for equal and consistent dwell time to fire spark that test higher average HCCT current. Wait, What? ...

MKossor

Luke, It is indeed gratifying to earn positive performance reports using coils adjusted with your tool. The problem I encountered was doubt and criticism of readers skeptical of strictly subjective performance comparisons vulnerable to placebo effect and reluctance to report disappointing results. ...

MKossor

Mark, improved performance operating on AC/Magneto versus 12V battery is due to the limitations of using average coil current as an indirect approximation for coil dwell time to fire spark to adjust your coils regardless of how experienced the operator is based on my TDAS test results. A novice usi...

MKossor

Great progress on this collaborative effort. Once the coil test algorithm is finalized, I'm looking forward to how the next phase evolves on validating the coil test algorithm. That part was a lot of fun and yielded some interesting and non-intuitive results that helped optimize the ECCT coil test ...

MKossor

Good news, hope that coil tuning is all it was and lesson learned.

MKossor

Thanks for the update. Good luck cleaning it up and re-assembling.

MKossor

Coil point adjustment drifts with use, more than many realize as I stated in my Dec 15 post; needing periodic adjustment using proper tools not unusual. However, coil points should NOT have worn to the point of needing replacement after 3 years with moderate use you described if the capacitors are ...

MKossor

Great job Rob! I thought that car on the cover looked familiar when I opened up my copy this morning.
Sure enough.

MKossor

Great New Year Resolution:

Learn how to test and adjust your coils for optimum performance.

MKossor

Precise coil activation
No messy maintenance

Win / Win

MKossor

Wow Indeed James, classic example of the pot calling the kettle black. More Sarcastic orthogonal comments certinally do not further your purported thoughts for a better forum in 2020. Perhaps we can All Try a little harder to that end. By the way, I adapted the standard use of larger font from Stev...

MKossor

Scott, Your likening time keeping between the ECCT and HCCT stated on 12/20 10:36PM between mechanical and digital watches for an event (meeting with another person) that has a error consequence (minutes) is many magnitudes distinct from ignition timing consequence (millionths of a seconds). I atte...

MKossor

Jim, coils do require periodic maintenance and adjustment for equal and consistent firing time. Consider sending your coils to Erik Larson (www.modeltcoils.com) or Brent Mize (www.coildocter.com) to have them tuned up. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the performance when you get them bac...

MKossor

Acknowledging the transfer of knowledge is sometimes a futile pursuit, I will not dwell further other than attempt to clarify one point. Some folks like myself live in congested areas where the ability to pull out in traffic quickly when the opportunity presents is essential. The ability to acceler...

MKossor

A much better analogy for the HCCT to ECCT comparison is using a sun dial to tell time rather than a digital watch. Yes, that much of a difference. The sun's position to tell time is akin to using coil current to tell time. Granted they are on different scales but there are more variables involved ...

MKossor

Very interesting, some might even say eye opening.

Matt, Luke is spot on; Stick to monitoring the primary coil current. It provides all the information you need without risk or exposure to dangerous High Voltage.

MKossor

Chris, good catch. the caption should have read "1" (meaning single) spark Not 1" (1 inch) spark.

Right you are Luke P, will do.

MKossor

The Ideal Timer is now available for use with properly adjusted Model T coils that provides the best Model T engine performance possible using stock coils and Never needs Maintenance! The Ideal Timer ( I-Timer ) is a direct, drop in, replacement for the stock Model T timer that provides precise coi...

MKossor

Tis the Season!

Coil maintenance and tuning season that is

Happy Holidays

MKossor

Good progress, superimposing coil firings with each press of the switch. Displaying coil firing current history is an excellent metric to gauge coil firing consistency as you stated. Coil firing consistency ultimately equates to engine ignition performance. Here are two examples of coil firing hist...

MKossor

Luke, nice work. I would love to join in the technical discussion but am prohibited from doing so by forum rules imposed by the present "Leadership". Thats's because I am a current vendor that sells a commercial Model T product and therefore barred from posting related lengthy descriptions or photo...

MKossor

"Coils rebuilt several years ago." Find someone in your area to test/adjust your coils for equal and consistent firing Time . Coil point adjustment drifts with use, more than many realize. Also make sure the coil box contacts are all tight and clean. Verify the coils are all seated and secured prop...

MKossor

Adam, what Luke is doing is showing folks how to do for Free what others have taken years to research, develop and build into established products that benefit the Model T hobby. That’s his prerogative to freely share his investment in time, effort and education. I feel a few comments are in order ...

MKossor

Condolences Mike to you and your family. Thoughts and prayers are with you.

MKossor

Here is a link showing the tool. I believe the rules permit me to share a link. I received over 40 signatures on the petition to revoke the Vendor Discussion rule at Hershey. The rule presently prohibits vendors from posting photos, detailed descriptions or discussions of their creations here on th...

MKossor

Thanks for the interest in the new tool. I will post a website link in accordance with the rules as soon as I get back from Hershey. It really is a New tool having just received the first run a few days ago and had no time to prepare and upload the information getting ready for the trip to Hershey....

MKossor

Interesting common theme emerging with the few who support the Gag Rule; senior members who don't like sharing the forum lime light and resort to belittling personal attacks on posts that attract more attention than theirs then sometimes attempt to rationalize their behavior touting their intellect...

MKossor

Mark, thanks. email sent. Scott, thanks for the well wishes. Always try to make the trip to Hershey a little more interesting with new things. Yes, that is what I call the Forum Gag rule that suppresses the open exchange of information by product developers. The rule came about because some folks s...

MKossor

New innovative tool makes coil adjusting faster and easier. Sorry, New Forum Gag rule forbids me from describing merits of the new tool or posting photos of it. Folks attending Hershey can see it up close and use it at Chocolate field space C2A 61 Forum participants visiting will also have the oppo...

MKossor

Steve, good troubleshooting approach. Fuel/mixture could be at issue. Good process of elimination checking for intake leak. Another thing to try is swapping the carburetor for a known good one to rule that out. Good luck identifying and resolving the root cause. Looking forward to learning what it w...

MKossor

Hershey2018.jpg See the E-Timer - Electronic ignition I-Timer - Ideal Timer ECCT - Electronically Cranked Coil Tester Coil testing and tuning demonstrations. Take advantage of show specials while supplies last. Be first to See what's NEW this year! Stop by and say hello! Chocolate Field C2A 61

MKossor

I sent all MTFCA Directors my email request to repeal the Gag Rule prohibiting Model T product developers from discussing the merits of their creations, photos, and fielding application questions on the forum; has anyone else?

MKossor

BINGO! - those are both excellent points that makes one ponder; who the heck is benefiting from suppressing discussion of good products that work really well and helps folks enjoy the hobby more? It sure isn't Forum members or developers who take considerable risks to make products for the Hobby.

MKossor

Let your feelings be known to those who set the Rules.

https://mtfca.com/clubpages/contacts.htm

NOTHING will change otherwise!

MKossor

I agree with Dick. The bottom line is the New forum Rule prohibiting Model T product developers from discussing the merits of their creations, theory of operation, and fielding application questions of interest to many here was a poor decision and disservice the forum. How the heck is suppressing d...

MKossor

Actually, the standalone ECCT can test the magneto output is sufficient to properly operate coils without the software. The test scale is similar to the venerable St. Louis Magneto tester for those familiar with that instrument. The scale is somewhat meaningless; based on model year as opposed to vo...

MKossor

Scott, that is a pretty good summary of what typically happens. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time to revive old crusty coil points until near the end of the day when things get slow. Lots of folks stopping by to see the E-Timer, I-Timer and ECCT; discussing or demonstrating how they work. B...

MKossor

Steve, Thanks for documenting and sharing your trip with the Forum. Always enjoy reading about adventures traveling in a T posted by you and Dean Yoder. Safe travels.

MKossor

Larry, I will be at Hershey this year, Chocolate Field C2A 61 Demonstrating the ECCT coil tester and would be happy to test your coils for you. Testing is fast and easy, However, do not offer coil rebuilding services. I can adjust the points for you but may need to refer you to rebuilders if the po...

MKossor

Common ECCT user comments: "My car has never run better" "Easier starting, Smoother Running, More Power!" "I can now take hills in high pedal that I could not before" "I had No prior experience adjusting Model T coils; even a Novice can adjust coils like a professional" "I purchased rebuilt coils s...

MKossor

Chocolate Field C2A 61 Hershey2019c.jpg See the E-Timer Electronic ignition I-Timer Ideal Timer ECCT - Electronically Cranked Coil Tester Coil testing and tuning demonstrations. Take advantage of show specials while supplies last. Be first to See what's NEW this year! Stop by and say hello! Chocola...

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