Silk purse from a Sow's ear

[Scott_Conger]

I will admit first off, to generally despising cheap Chinese tools for the usual reasons, none of which include their usually being anywhere near being fit for use other than to keep boats from straying from their mooring.

A notable exception for me is when I need an outrageously unusual tap or die, which often can only be purchased from China for about $10 and then mailed to me for $4 (FOUR DOLLARS! I cannot mail a float valve across town for less that around $7!!) Sometimes those taps/dies are great and sometimes they simply reinforce the stereotype for Chinese tools (BTW, is it fair to call it a "stereotype" if something is usually true so much of the time?)

Now to the transformation: needing a Semi-Universal Dividing head for some time, I looked at the usual sources for good tooling - USA; nope, UK; nope, Germany; nope, Switzerland; nope. China; MILLIONS OF 'EM! All ridiculously cheap and with free shipping even at 60# plus on the weight.

So, what do you get? Well, you get an enormous chunk of cast iron with the removable chuck all but permanently welded on, due to improper fit at the threads. A mismatched bunch of ill-fitting screws, screws that have socket heads but are fit to countersunk holes which will interfere with movement and keep the device from tilting (even the Parts List lists the wrong screw!!), sector arms that seem to be welded to the index plate and an index needle assembly that is so sloppy that it really doesn't matter where it is positioned as you can let it drop into any one of 1/2 dozen holes and it won't make the head move. Crown it all off with cheap dime-store washers and you have yourself quite the mess. It's ugly, cheap-looking and unfunctional. In my opinion it's not a tool; it's a kit, and not a terribly good one at that.

Finally, and best of all, the parts are greased with the standard Chinese grease which appears to be a concoction of marmalade, thoroughly mixed with valve grinding paste. With this mixture, your parts will mesh perfectly within a day of use and then be completely worn out by day 2.

However, all is not lost: a disassembly and total cleanup of every part, followed by mandatory deburring of EVERYTHING (!) brings the parts to a useful state. Then proper greasing and adjustments make the device remarkably accurate (.0008 on the chuck and .0003 at the dead center) with all but indiscernible backlash. Replacement of ill-fitting screws, new washers, remachined sector arms and the purchase of a new the index needle assembly from a GRIZZLY (TAIWAN) dividing head made things extremely accurate and repeatable, as the GRIZZLY replacement is a very well made part. The crowning touch of ergonomics was the replacement of clamping bolts with adjustable ball-handled clamping handles on both the dividing head and tailstock which combined with all of the above, finished turning the device into something both functional, highly accurate, and enjoyable to use. The direct-indicating pointer is still horrible, being made from what appears to be a beer can or similar quality material, but that can wait for another day.

A $210 lump of junk, plus around $60 worth of quality replacement parts from a TAIWAN manufacturer of similar, pricier product (index needle assembly), a quick sprint through the MSC catalogue for the ball-handles, and 2 days of work yielded a tool capable of extremely accurate work on par with a Swiss or an old Brown & Sharpe dividing head(from which this thing was copied). That Brown & Sharpe head will set you back $1200 or more (if you can find one) and very often will be pretty worn out, as they have not been made for (I believe) around 50 years.

If you have access to a machine shop, this is a very economical device if you have the wherewithal and time to fix it...if not, then the $650 GRIZZLY or similar TAIWANESE tools is your next best bet...or buy the one that Kevin Pharis is offering for sale in the Classifieds

[Kevin Pharis]

Hey Scott, wish I could have sent you mine to save you all that trouble! I’ve had similar encounters with a number of similar Chinese “tools”, and will likely continue to roll the dice on rarely used tools in the future. You are not alone, we all look to save a buck on a rarely used item once in a while, and China will always be there to remind us that low cost tools are most often junk. Some things should be advertised as disposable!

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Nice report Scott. About 25 years ago, I bought one of these from Grizzly. It has/had a few of the issues that you mentioned, but was/is generally okay to use as-is. I've made dozens of gears with it and have really had no complaints. I use it along with a 6-jaw Buck chuck. I turn the blank using the same chuck, then unscrew it from my lathe and screw it onto the dividing head. Nice to use the same threads! Finding a nice, American made dividing head, at any price, that hasn't been hugely abused and missing its index plates is nearly impossible.

As to Grizzly (Taiwan) versus Chinese products, what I read is that Grizzly now sources directly from China. As an aside, my vertical mill is also a Grizzly. It's their floor model knee mill. Also bought it long ago, (30 years?). At that time it cost just under $3K. The exact same mill today is $7700! The mill had a few small issues. I had to re-fit the gib on vertical ways of the knee. It's been an very nice mill, all-in-all. Not at all like a Bridgeport, but I can get it in the basement.

[Scott_Conger]

I suppose I'm not entirely surprised to hear that GRIZZLY now sources out of China. They must keep a better eye on things and do some Quality Control and Receiving Inspection of things that other outfits fail to do, as the replacement parts I purchased from them - primarily the index needle assembly was wonderfully made and saved me a bunch of work making my own. That extra attention to detail, higher quality machining and obviously a support system to ensure a decent product comes at a price, since the GRIZZLY device comes in at 4x the price of the device I bought. You get what you pay for and I was fully expecting a bit of a disaster to be delivered to my door, and I in that regard, was not disappointed.

[TXGOAT2]

I believe that Jet, Grizzly, and some others source, or did source, the same basic equipment, but at different levels of finish.

[Kevin Pharis]

Many times it is the exact same product, sold by the various distributors under different brand names. Prices are adjusted according to the robustness of the brand’s reputation, and are no correlation to actual product quality. Often the more expensive option will be from a company that offers warranty and domestic support (eg; Grizzly), where the direct ship fleabay options are “at your own risk”

[Scott_Conger]

Kevin

I think you are generally correct regarding basic parts being the same, with different levels of finish and I'd bet that extends to around 90% of products offered. As an exception, my experience showed that the GRIZZLY parts were VASTLY better than the VEVOR parts and were quite different, though. While the VEVOR index needle assembly was wobbly, and the aluminum slide upon which it was mounted was rounded off with a heavy grit belt sander, the GRIZZLY index needle assembly was dead-solid and the slide it was on was fully machined steel which had been heat treated and black oxide coated. Additionally, looking at their product literature, the tailstock casting is entirely different which indicates to me at least, a different supply chain as opposed to the VEVOR and X BRAND devices. I was very happy with the GRIZZLY replacement parts and I am not an easy person to please, when it comes to tools and tooling. It was pure dumb-luck that I stumbled onto the GRIZZLY website's parts ordering page and took a risk in buying those parts but felt that I had very little to lose in ordering them. I'm glad I did.

[Mark Nunn]

I've had Grizzly woodworking tools for about 20 years. I'm completely happy with them (although I did change to industrial clamps on the jointer). When I visited the Grizzly store in Springfield, Missouri, I'm glad that I didn't bring a truck. My brother-in-law and I could easily have filled the truck before we left.