First Model T

Sunnybrook Farm · Post by **Sunnybrook Farm** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:33 am

The T arrived today and got put in the barn for a while. The motor number says april 23 but title says jan 25, I don't know them that well, any guesses? Of course it really doesn't matter as the goal is to have fun driving around the farm once I put new bands in it.

Post by **jiminbartow** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:54 am

Does the engine number match the engine number on the title number? If they match, and the engine number reflects a 1925 manufacture date, it is a 1925 and at some point in the past, a former owner made a mistake in saying that it was a 1923, as they look a lot alike. If the engine number is different from the engine number on the title and the engine number on the title reflects a manufacture date of 1923, it means the engine was changed out and the T is a 1923. Jim Patrick

Serial number lookup: www.mtfca.com/encyclo/sernos.htm

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:10 am

The car has a high radiator and a splash apron under it. It also has balloon tires which are all types which came with a 25. I suspect the car is a 25 which has had a 23 engine installed in it. All the engines were interchangeable. Many times an engine was traded in on a rebuilt engine, or maybe needed a good engine and a good one was retrieved from a wrecked car. The engine number will only reflect the year the engine was manufactured and even then sometimes the number was ground down and re-stamped. Nothing to worry about, it sounds the same and looks the same and most people today don't even know what year it is anyway. I have gone into a gas station and been asked, "what is it a 46?"
Norm

Sunnybrook Farm · Post by **Sunnybrook Farm** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:51 am

The previous owner said it was a 25 as did the title so it must be a 25 with a 23 engine. I don't mind, it is a new adventure as I have worked on Model As since the 70s and they had replacement engines except for one. I have been collecting Model T parts for 40 years and have wanted to get one for that long but work got in the way. My spare engines are both 26s out of saw mills. I have been fascinated by Ts and now I get to work on one finally.

Post by **RajoRacer** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:33 pm

I'm not sure but I believe it could be a 1924 body as it appears the lower hinge on the door protrudes farther out than the top - indicative of pre '25 body - can you provide a tighter photo of the door ? Also, is the firewall patent plate have 2 or 4 rivets fastening it ?

Post by **DanTreace** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:51 pm

Yes, Erik correctly identified the body, its ‘23, low radiator and hood, cowl has low slope, and the dash is sporting accessory steering column brace, these early ‘23 calendar bodies did not have the dash to column bracket, that bracket came along late April.

Nice T overall, the later balloon wheels will give nicer ride, and the rear axle is the large 11” drum of 26-27, good to have with better emergency/parking brake!

Post by **Rich Eagle** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:53 pm

It looks right at home in the barn there Gill. The front fenders also say it is a '23 as there is no tapered lip to the front apron.
I'm pleased you can see the fun in it but are interested in knowing exactly what it is.
Enjoy the heck out of it.
Rich

Post by **Oldav8tor** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:17 pm

Gill,
As you can see there are many knowledgeable, helpful people on this forum. Welcome to the obsession!

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:50 pm

One dating clue that hasn't been mentioned is the hand brake quadrant.
2 rivets = 25-27
4 rivets = 1924 or earlier.

Sunnybrook Farm · Post by **Sunnybrook Farm** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:46 pm

Wow, a lot to look at, I will check it tomorrow, it is cold and snowing now and I can't see too well in the barn. It does appear to have 26-27 rear end or at least brake drums. A strange thing is that some of the paint is flaking off the body and there is bright red paint under it. Thanks for all of the input, I will see what I can find tomorrow.

Sunnybrook Farm · Post by **Sunnybrook Farm** » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:34 pm

I took a couple more photos, it looks like there are 4 rivets in the hand brake part though I didn't get a real good photo. Forgot to look at the door hinge, need to write things down I guess. My first task will be to look at the transmission bands, I was told they were shot and have new ones but will see what it looks like. Do I need to take the hogs head off to change them, probably so since I have never done it before?

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:00 pm

Gill, to be able to change the bands without removing the hogshead, the steel band needs to have detachable ears on one end. You can check this out by removing the inspection plate on top of the hogs head.
Even if you have the detachable ears, I would recommend removing the hogshead to do the band change. It is somewhat difficult to re-instal new bands through the hole without bending/distorting them and getting them out of round. There are lots of tricks when doing the job. Just ask and you will receive!

Allan from down under.

Post by **Oldav8tor** » Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:19 pm

If you open the hogshead inspection panel be careful not to let anything fall in. That will almost guarantee pulling the engine

Sunnybrook Farm · Post by **Sunnybrook Farm** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:07 am

I have seen on videos that some people even have the wrenches attached to a chain to keep from losing them. Like operating on someone and the doc leaving a tool in the patient I guess. Going t have to be extra careful on this one. Thanks

Post by **DanTreace** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:43 am

Sunnybrook Farm wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:07 am
Going t have to be extra careful on this one. Thanks

Yes, by experience anything 'free' can fall in, including those things that are just slightly affixed.

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: Scan0252 (2) copy.jpg (106.52 KiB) Viewed 3657 times

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:50 am

Some folks stuff rags into the transmission to catch any nuts or washers that might be dropped when removing or installing them. Just be sure you count the rags going in and coming out.

Bud Delong · Post by **Bud Delong** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:52 am

Under the trans cover Dan posted about if you have a screen or will install one you need a gasket on each side! Bud.

Post by **DanTreace** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:47 am

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:50 am
Just be sure you count the rags going in and coming out.

How true, I know more than one guy who left a rag, and what a mess in the magneto and triple gears on start-up!

For me, years ago did that rag stuffing, and IMO, a rag is a very poor safety blanket. Fumbled pedal shaft nut fell into a fold, and the rag twisted when trying to reach it, and was so lucky to have just caught that nut with thumb and finger, at the end of a fold, before it disappeared into the abyss.

From then on, use lassos around pieces, including tools, and for the band nuts and washers, loop a couple strands of dental floss and tie off the lasso.

Now have free access with fingers to fit these pieces, without the clumsy rags taking up valuable space for the handwork! The floss breaks away easily after the washer and nut are affixed several turns on the shaft.

Relaxing and nerve-racking-less!

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