tail light electrification

[aDave]

There used to be a product sold that allowed the insertion of an electric bulb into the oil taillight without any modifications. The device was simply a snap ring with a bulb socket soldered to it, and the ring sat just inside the open lens cover. (Yes, wiring to a power source was necessary).
I bought one years ago and need another, but don't remember where I purchased it, and can't find it on the vendor's pages. Perhaps it was the creation of a "one person operation". Does anyone remember it- does anyone know if the item is still made and for sale?
Dave

[RajoRacer]

Yes, they were an available accessory item from a couple of the vendors - haven't seen them in a number of years though - our '19 Centerdoor has an "era" modification one.

[aDave]

Thanks...maybe another item that did not have enough demand to continue production.If anyone has one that they no longer need, I'd consider purchasing it.

Dave

[Allan]

I made mine. Hardest part was finding metal sockets so they could be soldered to the wire. Mine came from 80's Japanese tail light assemblies at the wreckers. Later stuff is all plastic.

Allan from down under.

[TRDxB2]

I found an old ad on the internet for one that Lang's sold. It appears to have 3 wires similar to what a trailer might use. After looking at Internet search results for Model T oil Lamp conversions there were a variety of solution. There are many 2 & 3 wire sockets available that could similar to what you have. So do does yours have 2 or 3 wires and is it set up for brake, turn and running light or what ? The number of wires would be tied to how they were connected to the rest of the car - like

A picture will help as well. By the way converting an oil lamp use to LED's would also be a possibility. I'll be glad to see if I can find a solution for both.

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If just 2 wire these would work and there are many more styles

[aDave]

Frank,
Thanks very much for your diagrams/pictures. I already have a three wire socket in the lampo fixture....works brake light and directional. I want another light - a running light, if you will. My electrical skills are negligible, and the easiest solution for me was to by the accessory years ago. Adding a bulb is overkill, yes, but as I say, it was easier to wire that than to mess with the existing wiring...although I may attempt that, thanks to your diagram.
Attached are the pictures of the one I have. Although the white wire is apparently ground, the snap ring works for that purpose as well.

[aDave]

Shucks...failed picture sending....I will try again.
Dave

[aDave]

I get the dreaded yellow triangle, and this message:

The image must be at least 0 pixels wide, 0 pixels high and at most 1200 pixels wide and 768 pixels high. The submitted image is 675 pixels wide and 1200 pixels high.

Any thoughts as to how to post a picture with no pixels?

[Tim D]

I made a few out of flat sheet metal that would set in the place of the burner. never had time to finish them to sell them. I am also the one that makes the Led kit for the gas head lamps.

[WayneJ]

socket.jpg (9.22 KiB) Viewed 4996 times

You don't need anything fancy. I bought bayonet sockets from NAPA, but this socket illustration is from Superbrightleds.com, so they carry them also. I replaced the tail lamp and side lamp burners with this type of socket, and secured it with two small screws, nuts, and washers. I ran the wire through the hole where the wick raiser went. Other than removing the burner, no modifications were made to the original kerosene lamps. I used two filament LED bulbs in the taillights, and a conventional one filament bulb for the front turn signal / side lamps. The conventional bulb in front gives enough resistance to make the flasher work properly. The LED taillights bulbs allow me to run taillights full time, if I choose, with a low current draw. I run the lights from a small 12 v battery. I found it helpful to run a seperate ground wire from each lamp to a good ground on my car.

[aDave]

Thanks Wayne.

Are you able to have tail lioght, turn signal and brake light from that one two filament bulb?

Dave

[WayneJ]

Yes, I use an old fashion turn signal switch, mounted on the steering column.

I also use a third brake light.

[aDave]

Did you need to install any other device? What happens when you have the right turn signal blinking, at night with tail lights illuminated, and you step on the brake to slow down for the turn?

I am curious how those 3 input wires go into a two filament socket. Electricity is a mysterious force for me....not a strong suit at all!

How is the socket wired?

Thanks for whatever help you can give me.

Dave

[WayneJ]

Dave, I will get back to you tonight, with a wiring diagram, and more info.

[aDave]

OK, Thanks, Dave

[TRDxB2]

Did you need to install any other device? What happens when you have the right turn signal blinking, at night with tail lights illuminated, and you step on the brake to slow down for the turn?
I am curious how those 3 input wires go into a two filament socket. Electricity is a mysterious force for me....not a strong suit at all!
How is the socket wired?
Thanks for whatever help you can give me.
Dave

A two filament socket with 3 wires has 1 for the ground,. One way to wire is for filament for parking(dim) light and another the taller filament for for the brake & turn lights. So this is just a simple diagram (example) to show how things are wired WITHOUT overrides. Overrides are needed to cancel a function like turn signal when brakes are applied. The diagram shows to light switch boxes but there is only one
So the turning on the hazard Light or a Turn signal switch would light the lower filament but only the Brake switch would light the higher filament.

The Flasher shown has 2 prongs because the case is plastic and a ground connection is needed. Metal two prong flashers are usually grounded
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Relays are used to manage the overrides.

[aDave]

Thanks Frank....
admittedly, I am challenged by the mysterious forces of electricity...but stubborn, and want to learn. (Dangerous, I know).
Where do the relays (overrides) plug into the system?

I have a two prong, 12 volt flasher - located under the rear seat, near the power source - unlike the adapters used in households to plug three pronged appliances into two pronged outlets, there is no ability to plug a relay into the back of the flasher. Do relays have that ability....can I go wire-relay-flasher? But, if I can, that still gives me the challenge to rewire the directional switch under the dash.

Looking at your diagram, I would need to rewire the directional switch...under the little bitty "dash" panel on my '15.
I already have a brake light in the left lamp (two bulbs there), I am just trying to find a simple way to put a brake light in the right lamp. As you probably know, the car came with only the left side lamp...years ago, I acquired a similar lamp and mounted it on the right side to get directional signals.
Signals and running lights I have in the right side....it really seems simpler to add another socket and bulb into that lamp to get the brake light I desire.

I do like the ability to have only one bulb in the lamp.....a rewire project for the future.

Thanks for your explanations and diagrams

Dave

[Allan]

In the USA are rear indicator lamps allowed to be red? Ours must all be amber. I prefer to make mine look like add-ons, which they are, so they can be fitted in the optimal position to catch the eye of unwary drivers. Hiding brake lights in the tail lights is a different kettle of fish.

Allan from down under.

[RajoRacer]

Yes - tail & stop lamps to the rear are red - turn indicators in front are amber.

[WayneJ]

What happens when you have the right turn signal blinking, at night with tail lights illuminated, and you step on the brake to slow down for the turn?

Dave

In my set up, with a single, two filament bulb (on each side), the one filament (the dimmer one) is used as a tail light (night-time running light). The second (brighter) filament is used as the brake / turn signal indicator. When the brake pedal is pressed and also the right turn indicator is on, the left stop light will be shining brightly (indicating a stop) and the right brake light will be flashing indicating the intention of a right turn.

Wiring for turn signals & stop lights is confusing, in part because there are multiple ways to accomplish the result. Since you have an existing system, and wish to add an additional brake light, I don't believe a two-filament bulb will be a solution for you, since the second filament is for a tail light (night-time running light) which it sounds like your existing system does not have. Adding a second brake light should be straight forward and would probably be easiest (for your existing system) to add an additional bulb and socket to your right tail lamp, as you have suggested. If you need help with the wiring of the second brake light, it might be easiest if you post a wiring diagram of your existing system and then posters could offer suggestions of how to wire the second brake light.

[Kaiser]

I found a way to electrify your tail or side lights without butchering anything, i took a lump of nylon and turned a piece that was the same height as the wick holder and mounted a generic bulb holder on it. That way you can change out the wick holder for the bulbholder in a matter of seconds, the bulbholder is held in place exactly the same as the wick holder by mounting the oil reservoir. the wires go out through the hole where the adjusting knob for the wick goes out.
I used nylon because it was at hand, but a piece of wood and some simple hand tools should do the job too.

[Allan]

The original vendor supplied units clipped in place. i made mine that way. There are no holes to drill in any Ford part. The burner assembly can stay in place. The wiring can be fed down through the chimney. A connector can be used so that the electric light is easily removed, allowing the lamp to be lit for night parades. What's not to like about this?

Allan from down under.

[aDave]

All great solutions.

Thanks everybody.

Dave

[aDave]

Digging deeper raises another question, but first, some explanation.

I have a non-starter 1915 which apparently was equipped with mag lights...headlights and taillight, which also illuminated the license plate (clear lens on the side of the lamp).

Light control is by a pair of push button - NOT 'PUSH-PULL' . the pair are arranged sided by side imbedded in the left side panel, where a door would be. Pushing the top button of one pair closes the circuit, lighting a headlight (dim or hi), the tail light, and pushes OUT the lower button. To turn out the lights, push the lower button, lights go out and and the upper button pops out.
Now, to the question: there are two wires going to the taillight...when those wires are separated, and not connected to anything, the headlights do not work. DOES ANYONE HAVE A DIAGRAM THAT SHOWS HOW THOSE WIRES ARE CONNECTED TO THE BULB, and, if possible, any thoughts as to how a directional signal could be wired into that bulb? The diagrams I can find on the internet show only ONE WIRE going to the taillight...I have two going there...to what should each be connected?

Thanks,

Dave

[BHarper]

Hi Dave,

I never studied the wiring of the lamps on your car when I have been near it. Sorry.

Your statement of magneto power to all three lamps, and that disconnecting the tail lamp's two wires kills the head lamps, strongly suggests that they are wired in series, much like the Christmas tree lamps of yore.
One of the wires to the tail is power FROM the head lamps and the other tail lamp wire is BACK TO the frame of the car to complete the circuit.

I hope that this helps.

Good luck with your project.
Bill

[aDave]

Thanks Bill.

A neighbor friend is knowledgeable concerning electrons and all those other mysterious things. I'll ask him....or maybe Carl G. can visit someday and figure things out with me.

Be well, my friend...hope to see you in Hooksett next month.

Dave

[TRDxB2]

Digging deeper raises another question, but first, some explanation.

I have a non-starter 1915 which apparently was equipped with mag lights...headlights and taillight, which also illuminated the license plate (clear lens on the side of the lamp).

Light control is by a pair of push button - NOT 'PUSH-PULL' . the pair are arranged sided by side imbedded in the left side panel, where a door would be. Pushing the top button of one pair closes the circuit, lighting a headlight (dim or hi), the tail light, and pushes OUT the lower button. To turn out the lights, push the lower button, lights go out and and the upper button pops out.
Now, to the question: there are two wires going to the taillight...when those wires are separated, and not connected to anything, the headlights do not work. DOES ANYONE HAVE A DIAGRAM THAT SHOWS HOW THOSE WIRES ARE CONNECTED TO THE BULB, and, if possible, any thoughts as to how a directional signal could be wired into that bulb? The diagrams I can find on the internet show only ONE WIRE going to the taillight...I have two going there...to what should each be connected?

Thanks,

Dave

A non-starter car was wired differently than a starter. But the attached diagram doesn't mean that is how your T is wired, someone may have rigged it up differently. As BHarper says the headlights were wired in series. That's because the Magneto puts out more than 6 volts and is known to burn out headlight bulbs. See Diagram. I am working on a taillight setup, my diagram above, (brake, turn & parking) using the same LEDs used for that in modern cars they are extremely small. I have some parts ordered, the pigtail sockets prices in the Auto Supply stores were way high. These LED bulbs have dual filament type meaning the one bulb is for brake, turn and parking. While they are for 12v - I am looking into some options for powering from 6v Model T voltage [generator, battery with a BOOST converter (6v to 12v up to 10amp)] as well as running off a motorcycle battery. The amperage draw is so low recharging isn't needed that often.

non-starter disgram.jpg (43.2 KiB) Viewed 4650 times

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