Omnibus in progress

[Thorlick]

For the past 5 years I have been sitting on the collection of parts which will become my Ford English Station Omnibus. I have just shortened this to Omnibus, or Bus. My wife, Terrie, has had other names for it from time to time.

It is now time to start work on the old Bus. I have pulled it out of the barn in order to clear a space to start work in. Here is what she (he?) has started out looking like (with Rusty my 1927 L.A.F.D. Mountain Patrol Vehicle looking on):

My 1912 Omnibus

To quell laughter I now post a close idea of my goal... add 1912 frame to windshield brass support rods and this will be close:

Anticipated Appearance

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First I pulled off the body and looked the chassis over. This chassis was once a family truck pieced together with parts Mel Miller found while collecting body wood parts for his Ford Model T replacement parts and drawings business. His daughter had been storing the truck for many years since Mel's passing. Having lost the storage and discovering that unknown helpers had removed most of the body parts, and all the brass, she recognized that the truck was never going to meet her needs and so she reluctantly sold me the T. I plan on taking a trip up to Oregon to give Jennifer, her children and grandchildren a ride upon completion.

My very first job was to buff out a little mark on the front spring pack:

Broken Spring

I soon determined that buffing may not be the route to pursue, I re-bushed a replacement lower leaf and installed it onto the chassis.

Next I decided that since the steering dropped over center on hard turning in either direction, a property sure to cause Model T passenger fatality, I found the problem. So I have now removed the Pitman arm and measured it at 4.5".

Pitman Arm 4.5"

So now I am looking for a replacment Pitman. I am guessing that 5.5" will be what is needed.

Does anyone know any of the following:

1. What year was 4.5" used?
2. What sizes were available?
3. Was a 5.5" available?
4. What would an appropriate length be for a car which is going to be very heavy and sport a Ruckstell and 4:1 rear ratio?
5. Is there anyone willing to part with an adequately long Pitman Arm?

Respectfully submitted, TH

[Thorlick]

I can't believe this. I just came in from my barn where I had pulled down an egg crate from on top of a high shelf whilst looking for some electric parts for my 1927 which I sort of hoped would be there... they weren't. But I did find something else I sorta wanted...

Pitman arms

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Pitman arms

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This "new" Pitman arm is 1" longer than the one I already had (well I really had them both, but didn't realize it)!

The black arm is off of the chassis, the brown one was in the bottom of the egg crate. I had no idea I had that and haven't looked into that crate in over ten years! We are now 4 1/2 hours until my B'day!... cool!

Tomorrow the arm goes onto the car to see if the over-center problem is cured.


TH

[KWTownsend]

Terry-
Look like fun! Here is some information about pitman arms:

By R.V. Anderson on Sunday, June 15, 2014 - 08:20 pm:
If you ever don't have access to a sample arm, here are the dimensions and changes (from Ford engineering drawings):

1909: A= 2-1/8"; B= 3-1/2"; keyway is 1/8" x 1/4"
1910: A= 2-27/32"; B= 4-1/2"
1912: keyway is 9/64" x 1/4"
1917: A= 3-11/32" (this drawings shows the arm to have an oval shaped cross section)
1922: cross section changed to pronounced diamond shape
1926: A= 4"; B= 3-11/16" according to the drawing dated 1-4-26, are the dimensions for 929C

Interesting note: 1927 parts book shows T-929C (the last type) as being used 1909-27.
Ball: 1” diameter

: ^ )

Keith

[Dan Haynes]

That will be a great rig, Terry and I'm glad to see it - I remember your 1913 Mountain Wagon.

I'm a long-time truck and bus nut, sometimes even more so than cars and, don't forget, your new design will permit stacking!:

A while ago you had asked about making the trip down to visit the Stanley Mountain Wagon and, try as I might, I could not get my welcoming answer to "send" back to you and it is still stuck in my message out box. So please accept this as a late response, if you find yourself south of Sacramento with time on your hands, by all means stop by and visit the attention-starved Stanleys and the rest. I recently had to move the cars from a very dusty warehouse to a different garage.

[Thorlick]

Dan, There’s a Stanley Mountain Wagon in Lodi? I have to come and visit you!

I loosely based the design of my 1913 Ford Mountain Wagon, named “Toady”, on the ’13 Stanley Mountain wagon in the National Automobile Museum in Reno. So it was a poor man’s version of your Mountain Wagon!

A fellow came by to see Toady one day and ended up driving off with his purchase. Within an hour my wife said “why did you sell that, it is your only car I liked”. Note to spouses, tell your spouse these secrets … we are not mind readers!

The omnibus will do everything Toady did and more. It will carry a troop of 10 Girl Scouts down to the river. It will allow a wife and her girl friends to chat together about anything not auto related whilst you merrily shift in and out of Ruckstell. More? The bus will allow spouse to dress more formally and no hair will be ruffled. The Bus will even provide mounting locations for bud vases!

Toady had a brass sitting toad radiator mascot which I had surreptitiously drilled … he had an impressive urinary stream when hot … a feat producing much hilarity. I’m not sure the bus will match that!

TH

[CatGuy]

Do you have any more pictures of the 1927 L.A.F.D. Mountain Patrol Vehicle?

[TXGOAT2]

I'm thinking you'd need a shorter pitman, 5:1 gearing, and large steering wheel on a heavier vehicle. If the short pitman made for a very large turning circle, 5:1 gearing and the larger steering wheel would probably get you by. Did Ford ever provide an 18" or larger steering wheel for trucks?

[Thorlick]

TXGOAT2
I think the 5:1 you speak of was the new steering planetaries Ford Switched to. I seem to remember that the gear blok limited the number of turns possible thus preventing over-center from happening.

Not everyone understands "over center". When you turn your steering the Pitman arm pivots from one side, down and around to the other. It traces an arc of LESS THAN 180 DEGREES. You feel some steering back pressure due to the caster in the front trying to return the wheels to straight ahead.

If there is no stop in your steering the arm can go to 180 degrees where the return pressure can push the arm back by going back (downward or upward). At 180 it has reached it's full right or left turning ability and is essentially high centered. As I mentioned the steering can go ether way. if you can keep turning the steering wheel then it goes "over center".

When this happens your full left turn stops increasing and the turn starts decreasing (the same thing happening with the right turn over-center). The effect is you turn your wheel hard and the steering feels like it is binding and as you are trying to accomplish a sharper turn you instinctively turn the wheel more causing the turn to get less until the steering wheel will not turn more. This is bad enough as you are sort of stuck in the turn. What you have to do is to start turning the wheel back (in a left turn over center you turn it right now). Now when you start turning the wheel back to escape your turn (in this example the left turn is escaped by turning the wheel right) the turn once again gets tighter until 180 degrees is again accomplished. At 180 (the high center) the wheels can unlock and come back as you keep turning ... until you get back to zero degrees which is straight ahead.

The result of this is ensuing panic as the steering gets locked in a tight turn and the car seems to refuse to respond. This is very dangerous, very scary and I have heard that folks have gotten injured including some fatalities due to this.

So the point of this is that you can't just shorten the Pitman to get lighter, slower steering unless you incorporate some way to stop the Pitman short of 180 degrees!

[Thorlick]

Keith, nice to hear from you!! Once I visit Jennifer and her clan with this bus I will be sure to visit in Gresham!

I appreciate your numbers. I ran your numbers with the help of Mr. Pythagoris and boiled them down to "C" the hypotenuse... or more simply the dimension I measured. Here is how it worked out:

• 1909 C= 4.095"
• 1910 C = 5.323"
• 1917 C = 5.074"
• 1926 C = 5.440"

Since my first Pitman arm measures about 4.5" and the one I had on hand measures about 5.5" . Since the 4.5" doesn't fit I am guessing that my measuring has erred on the low side (throwing out 1909 as I don't believe the rarity of 1909 parts rules this out) meaning that I would guess that the black arm was 1917-1925 and the brown arm was 1926-1927. I definitely can be wrong but that is my guess. I am now ready to try in the later Pitman arm and will check for going over center.

IMHO, TH

[Thorlick]

That did it !!! No more terrifying over center steering! With the 5.5" Pitman arm (see my measurement method above) steering goes stop to stop with no binding and no over-center! SHEZAMMM!!!!!!


TH

[Bjerm]

here is s picture of the start of my Omni bus project

[Thorlick]

Ben, You have a nice start on your Omnibus. At this point you have lots of options. Do you have more of this body? Have you a set of the 1959 plans? Is the wood in your body tub in salvageable condition?

I am 77 miles due south from you, close enough to help each other out on these rare bodied Model T cars. Following are some photos which may help you on your project.

Here is how it looks loaded up as your was:

loaded for trip home

Exterior:

outside body

Interior:

inside body

Side view:

body as purchased

On Chassis:

on Chassis

If what I see in your photo is all you have, you can finish it off as is making a "shooting brake" body as I believe the English call this. You would only need seat upholstery and the rear step!

There are not a lot of these in existence. I would appreciate hearing from other owners.

TH

[Erik Johnson]

I suggest reading this thread if you are not already aware of it:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/92965.html

As I posted above, there is a nearly identical 1915 omnibus here in the Twin Cities including the green color that was built by Dave Ferch in the 1960s. His son Peter now owns it. I saw it many times at local AACA events in the 1960s and 70s when I was a kid. As you are aware, the windows, top and top posts of these omnibuses are removable and I did see the Ferch omnibus in various configurations over the years, typically with the windows removed.

[m_p_dean@yahoo.com]

Try not to dwell on your wife's creative names, even though she might be right (but only sometimes).