Spokes - need collective wisdom

[Oldav8tor]

I have 30 x 3.5 demountable wheels. Two have been rebuilt by Stutzman and two are original. One of the original wheels has a single spoke that has a crack. In fact, there is a crack on both sides which may go all the way thru....I don't know. The spoke is otherwise very solid and the other spokes are likewise very solid. The tenons are in good shape, not eroded away like some.

My question for the group..... I'm considering a repair by injecting an epoxy resin into the cracks. Alternatively, if the collective wisdom of this group is that it's time to rebuild....that's what I'll do. I've some health issues that have slowed me down this year but I do hope to be able to drive my car and participate in a couple of Michigan events before the season ends.

[Ed Fuller]

I always lean on the side of caution when it comes to wheels. I’d say rebuild the wheel with new spokes. The rest of the spokes might not have visible cracks, but they are just as old and have just as many miles on them.

Here is another way to look at it. If you try to perform some type of repair and you are driving your T down a bumpy dirt road or swerve in traffic to avoid a collision are you gonna think to yourself, “I sure am glad I saved some money and epoxied that cracked spoke.”

Or if you rebuild the wheels with new spokes and are presented with the same driving situations, I’m sure you’d think to yourself, “Man, I sure am glad I have some rebuilt wheels!”

[Craig Leach]

I will most likely get in trouble for this but one spoke does not a bad wheel make. I would think if you can get a thin epoxy that you can get deep into that crack would think you can get a few tours in then next off season send them to Noah. I would keep an eye on that one for piece of mind. I drove a T a while back that the spokes were so bad they sounded like a River Dance concert. Just saying.
Craig.

[Steve Jelf]

If I have non-demountable wheels in need of repair I want a good wheelwright to do the job. Demountable wheels? A good DIY project. Even at my advanced age, I think I can still respoke a wheel or two.

[JBog]

Last time I injected Epoxy it lasted about a year until it let go. I don’t think you can get it clean and prepped well enough for epoxy to hold long term. IMO.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I would not rebuild the wheel for that alone. If everything else about the wheel is in good condition, I would go with the epoxy option, not so such to add strength, but to seal it from moisture.

[babychadwick]

Would wood glue and clamping be a better option than epoxy? I would glue and clamp then epoxy everything from the outside. I believe woodglue would make a better bond and if it started to split again the epoxy exterior coating should make it very noticeable. Of course as soon as I had some down time I would rebuild it, in fact I would be building a replacement while the glue was drying.

[Oldav8tor]

Thanks for your comments. I have to scale back my driving this summer due to medical reasons so this is what I think I'll do. Inject epoxy into the cracks, at the same time giving the wheel a very thorough inspection. When the season ends, the wheel is off to Stutzman's for rebuild.

[Norman Kling]

Also inspect the back sides of the spokes. There might be other cracks which do not show.
Norm

[varmint]

I imagine a pair of worm gear clamps would give me more confidence than wood glue or epoxy, ugly but more secure, maybe out of balance.
Perhaps some galvanized bailing wire is the cheapest compromise, than a total rebuild. We are still shaking down our T and one thing I am watching is the spoke situation. If one wheel fails, then it's all new spokes for (4) wheels.

[Allan]

If the rest of the wheel is sound, that one cracked spoke is of little consequence.

My nephew works for a wood tuning business where they laminate three planks together to the turn a period 5" round post. They use Titebond no 3 woodworking glue in their laminations and the bond is stronger that the timber they use. Wood working glues are made for wood work.

Jack up the wheel and rotate it so that it is on the level. Clean/blow out the crack and fill with the adhesive. A thin blade will work it down into the crack. Clean up any excess with a damp cloth. You can apply a subsequent run of glue to completely fill the void. Just rotate the wheel and repeat for the other side of the crack. When dry, the glue is waterproof, but you can also lightly sand it and use an epoxy clear over it. Job done.

Allan from down under.

[A Whiteman]

Here is another way to look at it. If you try to perform some type of repair and you are driving your T down a bumpy dirt road or swerve in traffic to avoid a collision are you gonna think to yourself, “I sure am glad I saved some money and epoxied that cracked spoke.”

A search of this site (older forum) will highlight the wisdom of saving a buck on spoke rebuilds. The outcome of some posts are 'fortunate' indeed, and others not so.

Respoking is not that difficult to do when you get new spokes (NOT OAK!), there are some good posts here on how to do this.
I have done my wheels too, it is not that hard to get a new tight spoke install, especially on de-mountable wheels.

As a side note, the wood inside a cracked spoke may be a little softer as water and insects/moulds/rot may have had a chance to eat their way in. You just don't know what you may see under the surface.

[jiminbartow]

I think “Titebond Ultimate III” exterior yellow wood glue would be better than epoxy and wooden screw clamps are the only clamp that could apply enough pressure to close the crack completely. To get the glue deep into the crack, press it in with your finger tip and keep putting it in. You can use a blower or blow it using your lungs to blow the glue to the deepest points of the crack. Have a damp rag handy when you start clamping because much of the glue will come out. You will probably need at least two clamps to apply uniform pressure to the crack.

IMG_9412.jpeg (25.37 KiB) Viewed 1005 times

[Allan]

That's the stuff I use. Just be careful clamping. Completely closing the gap is not the way to go. Clamp firmly but not so tight that you expel the glue. I n your situation clamping may not be needed.

Allan from down under.

[jiminbartow]

Sorry. I must disagree. Wood glue will not hold if the gap is not totally closed. If the gap is even slightly open the glue will fail as the glue is very weak if not adhering to something other than itself. The glue will not attain full strength unless the two sides of the crack are totally closed and making tight contact with eachother. Any glue that is squeezed out is not needed. The only glue that is needed is the glue remaining between the two surfaces after they are clamped tightly closed.

[babychadwick]

Depending on the wood and conditions it is sometimes advisable to glue both pieces separately and let mostly dry giving the glue time to saturate. Then clamp out excess.

And yes I have repaired cracks with wood glue to have it break again but on a new region. The glue can be stronger than the wood. I've never had a similar experience with epoxy.

[jiminbartow]

Older members who attended high school shop classes in the 1960’s and 70’s will remember a 2 part powdered Marine wood glue called Resorcinol that was completely waterproof and used to glue waterproof plywood, boat construction and other projects such as salad bowls and cutting boards. It was the strongest exterior glue available. Like many superior products of days gone by, it is no longer made for whatever bogus reason, but can still be purchased on eBay. I recently purchased several cans and it worked as good as I remember. Being in powder form it has a very long shelf life of many many years. Once mixed, it is a deep dark red color. This would be the best waterproof wood glue for this application if you had any.

[JTT3]

Jim that stuff is awesome!