Model T coil tester advice: HCCT, Strobo-Spark, ECCT

[Scott_Conger]

Matt

you will not find many people thrilled to find coils with screws holding the cushion spring. It's fine for experimental work, but would be bad practice to advise it for someone who only knows your work/document for their baseline. If it works for you, fine of course. A better plan would be to simply set the rivet where it belongs and stake it in place. A search on the MTFCA forum for cushion spring travel will bring up threads where it is described it in detail. Including and advocating the use of new unmodifed points gapped correctly, will make your document more complete.

[Matt in California]

Nikolaus,
You are not alone in thinking you should match inductance.

Tom Carnegie who has lots of experience with the Montana 500 said in another thread:

There is a feeling that I cannot quite shake when testing coils using the time-to-fire method. I have been setting up my coils this way (using an oscilloscope) for going on twenty years. The reason I started doing this was to get better timing when running at faster speeds for the Montana 500. I have always considered it important to have four coils that were well matched. That is, had the nearly the same impedance and a high q-factor. The reason for this, and the feeling that I can't shake is that one coil set for time to fire on DC is not going to react the same as another coil set for time to fire on DC at all frequencies, especially if they have different impedance. I always optimize my coils for what I believe my average speed will be, that is with a rising voltage of that frequency with the correct harmonic content.

I have not studied the variance of timing between two coils with wildly different characteristics, so maybe I'm borrowing trouble. However, it seems to me that if you could trigger your tester with a rising voltage at a certain frequency, you'd have a more versatile and better tester.

But I have talked with others who are confident that if they are able to tune a set of coils over a number of frequencies and voltages the actual electrical values can be balanced by the tuning. I don't disagree with you. I am not sure what to advise others on the subject.

Scott,
I understand your issue with the screw. The reason I mentioned it is that after one goes too far on setting the rivet there is only one solution that I know of- replacing the rivet. But I agree that I should mention other methods. I have updated the document.

Here is the updated version:

Model T MCCT Adjustment.pdf

(6.36 MiB) Downloaded 139 times

Thanks!

Matt

[Scott_Conger]

Matt

in reality, with appropriate tools and methods, the rivet can be tightened if loose, and generally moved and staked to wherever it needs to be to get the operator's desired gap. They very rarely start out too close...usually too loose. It of course can be hammered flat and ruined, but that is a different story. So as to not take this way off topic and add a bunch of directions, some of which you probably already know and a few that you might not, I'll simply say that searching the forum will yield tools and methods to achieve what you and likely others might be looking for in this regard.

[AndyClary]

I have a tool made by Ron Patterson several years ago. It is basically locking pliers with a did that sets the river to the proper height, easy peasy for me after Ron figured it out.

Andy

[BarrettR]

I have been informed by "Langs" the strobo spark coil tester is no longer available.
Just FYI

[Been Here Before]

I thought that I have learned it best to stay away from discussion of this topic, but it is a Tuesday....

I have had my T for a few years. I was given a factory HCCT from an early Ford dealership. At the time the fellow stated that even in its day, the mechanics and customers found it more of a conversation piece.

I even today, the HCCT tester sits on a shelf, and I use a hand built test (I believe it is called a buzz box tester)to test and set up my coils.

I know it goes against modern wisdom of the superiority of the micro chip, but I can spend my money of other toys.

[Scott_Conger]

George, someday treat yourself to a drive in someone's car that has a set of properly tuned coils installed.

[BarrettR]

Know where I can find one like that?
I like using era equipment as long as it does the job.

[Scott_Conger]

A Buzz box makes the coil go "buzz", and you can set the current draw.

That is as complete an adjustment of a coil as changing spark plugs is an engine rebuild.

Some doctors used to use direct electric shock to your goods to cure, uh, your goods. Not everything "back in the day" is worth using today (unless you're a masochist).

[Mark Nunn]

Well... Thanks for that image stuck in my brain, Scott!

[Been Here Before]

Nothing more to say:

"That is as complete an adjustment of a coil as changing spark plugs is an engine rebuild."

I gotta throw away all my quack test instruments, and purchase one of them there modern computer things so I can get the greatest efficiency from my Model T.

Yep just listen to that motor after spending over a $1,000.00 dollars of my retirement money, and payment to the mortgage and student loan just to have the latest geewiz toy.

What do you think?

You have questions about----

It quivers? Oh the smoke? What oil leak? There is what - steam?

They all do that since 1908.

[TXGOAT2]

"They all do that".... not if they're running the way they are designed to. In my opinion, the closer to ideal the better, within practical limits. In all instances, a well-tuned Model T is a lot more rewarding to drive, and more reliable than otherwise, and a well-tuned T with all clearances and adjustments in order will last longer than one that is getting by with sputtering, missing, hard starting, leaks, loose fasteners, and various knocks and rattles. Cars in a state of neglect always cost more to operate if you drive much. A forced shut down and tow or roadside repair can spoil a nice drive. A better performing T is also safer T.

[TXGOAT2]

Good test equipment gives good performance. Most people do not buy expensive service equipment. They send items like coils to service providers and send out machine shop work to people who have invested in the equipment to do automotive machine work. A patient person could restore a T crankshaft with a flat rod journal to serviceable condition with hand files, a caliper, and emery cloth. A better job could be had by sending the item out to a shop for grinding and polishing.

[speedytinc]

Nothing more to say:

"That is as complete an adjustment of a coil as changing spark plugs is an engine rebuild."

I gotta throw away all my quack test instruments, and purchase one of them there modern computer things so I can get the greatest efficiency from my Model T.

Yep just listen to that motor after spending over a $1,000.00 dollars of my retirement money, and payment to the mortgage and student loan just to have the latest geewiz toy.

What do you think?

You have questions about----

It quivers? Oh the smoke? What oil leak? There is what - steam?

They all do that since 1908.

I am fairly new to this running coils thing. Untill I got my 14, I have run distributors.(for 30 years) During that time I acquired a HCCT to tune customer coils. I thought it was the way its done. The 14 ran fine, would do no more than 45. I have always gotten 60mph minimum in my other T's. Something was not right with the 14. I was real tempted to try a clip on distributor. A Montana buddy offered a coil tune on his ECCT. Wow, my coils were not up to snuff. With the new coil tune I could get 58mph. That sold me.
My opinion: The HCCT does well to set amp draw & work out double sparks, but wont help firing timing. HCCT tuned coils can have a wide range of song. The buss box will set amp draw, but not find double spark.The ECCT gives it all.

If you have low performance expectations, tune by ear - no equipment required. If you want optimal ignition performance - ECCT. Thats what my experience has taught me. The ECCT is a VERY useful tool, not a toy. I am fortunate to have 2 friends that own them.

[speedytinc]

Good test equipment gives good performance. Most people do not buy expensive service equipment. They send items like coils to service providers and send out machine shop work to people who have invested in the equipment to do automotive machine work. A patient person could restore a T crankshaft with a flat rod journal to serviceable condition with hand files, a caliper, and emery cloth. A better job could be had by sending the item out to a shop for grinding and polishing.

Having a provider is certainly a good option for many T owners. My concern is the fragile nature of a tuned coil. One serious bump/drop can throw out the adjustment, without testing before installation, you wont know.

[Luke]

I gotta throw away all my quack test instruments, and purchase one of them there modern computer things so I can get the greatest efficiency from my Model T.

Yep just listen to that motor after spending over a $1,000.00 dollars of my retirement money, and payment to the mortgage and student loan just to have the latest geewiz toy.

George,

I'm quite in sympathy with you if you're happy with the cool machines you have, and your car runs satisfactorily. Old tools have a certain charm of their own, particularly when you learn how to use them the way they were used all those years ago.

However I think others on here are quite right that timing your coils accurately, as is possible with modern tools, is likely to help your car run better.

On that, and regarding your comment above, you could do this for less than 1/20th of the amount you mention. You'd need to assemble the tool yourself, but it's not difficult and, arguably, you'd save that amount in fuel after a while of running a better tuned engine.

If you just want to stick with the old gear then good for you, but Scott is quite right about the 'buzz box', your HCCT would probably be a better tool than that (and either constructing your own electronic tester, or purchasing one, much better again).

Luke.