Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

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MHSprecher
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Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by MHSprecher » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:50 pm

I have been trying to remove the sediment bulb from the gas tank on my 24 coupe. The shutoff was frozen and I could not get it to loosen. Tapping it with a hammer broke the handle, of course. I used Kroil and Liquid Wrench and heat. The gas tank has been empty for 55 years, so no danger in applying heat. Nothing worked.

Now I need to remove the sediment bulb. I did, belated, buy a shut off removal tool from Snyder's and a new sediment bulb, but I need to remove the old bulb, but the bulb seems as tight in the tank as the shutoff was.

What now? I do not want to damage the gas tank. I may see if I can remove the shutoff using the new tool I bought and, if successful, see if I can take the shutoff from my new sediment bulb and install it in the old one. I have my doubts about the efficacy of that approach, but it is an idea. I will continue to soak the joint with Kroil and Liquid Wrench. I can use a little heat, but the threaded fitting for the bulb is soldered to the fuel tank, so I need to be careful.

Suggestions?


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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by John kuehn » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:00 pm

Not that it makes any different of the year of a T but in the case of my 24 Coupe and replacing the the sediment bulb I finally had to remove the tank to get a secure enough way to unscrew it.
I was restoring the car anyway and removing everything so the tank came out.
I didn’t realize how tight it was until I tried to remove the bulb.
Using a small pipe wrench with a cheater pipe was what it took to get it to move. The fitting on the tank bottom had 3-4 rivets or pins in it that secured it to the tank and then was soldered to make a leakproof joint. Surprisingly the fitting wasent hurt or cracked and the replacement bulb works fine. I used Teflon tape on it and no leaks.
Hope this helps


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MHSprecher
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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by MHSprecher » Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:02 pm

John,

I removed the tank so I could get the sediment bulb off. I just don't want to break anything and damage the tank. I have not gone to your extreme, yet.


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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by Original Smith » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:04 am

The tank is not strong in that area. You are lucky you have it out. Keep putting lots of penetrant on it, and get a wrench with an extension on it.

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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by RustyFords » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:10 am

I used a pipe wrench with an extension to remove one from an old tank.

Add penetrating oil and work the bulb in both directions alternatively, loosening and tightening, even if it feels like it's not moving. If it moves a microscopic amount, add some more oil, then keep rocking it back and forth. Every time it moves, add more oil. The oil will slowly work it's way into the threads as you do this and each turn will become slightly bigger.

All of the above is made slightly easier if the tank is removed from the car.

I recently started using EZ Turn instead of teflon tape. It's great stuff...aviation quality...specifically designed for fuel-related fittings. It's not cheap, and the smallest tube is gigantic, but well worth it if you work on a lot of old cars like I do.
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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by RajoRacer » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:47 am

Use the EZLube sparingly on the tapers as it can & will block the orifice to prevent full flow.

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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by Mark Nunn » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:54 am

I didn't know that EZ Turn acts as a thread sealant too. I have a new sediment bulb for my Runabout and I need to find a sealant. I don't have EZ Turn on hand.

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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by DanTreace » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:45 pm

Use Permatex #2 on sediment to tank threads. Gas resistant. Works fine, those threads are tapered pipe so they lock well too, Permantex will seal.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by RustyFords » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:12 pm

RajoRacer wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:47 am
Use the EZLube sparingly on the tapers as it can & will block the orifice to prevent full flow.
I agree. I used just the very thinnest amount on the tapers. I tested the fuel flow and it's great.
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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by RustyFords » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:12 pm

Mark Nunn wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:54 am
I didn't know that EZ Turn acts as a thread sealant too. I have a new sediment bulb for my Runabout and I need to find a sealant. I don't have EZ Turn on hand.
It sealed the threads perfectly.

As mentioned above though...it's important not to overuse it to the extent that it goops up because it's not fuel soluable and could possibly clog up a fuel line.
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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by Scott_Conger » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:39 pm

I'm a big fan of Permatex #2 on NTP (pipe) threads, and EZ Turn on tapered petcock style valves (which is what it's designed for). I have no doubt it would work on threads, but chose not to use it in that fashion.
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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by MHSprecher » Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:50 pm

Success! I put a little Liquid Wrench on it in addition to the Kroil and it came out pretty easily. Maybe it knew I had posted a question on the forum? The shut off came off easily with Snyder's tool. I wish I had done that before I broke the handle off! Maybe just as well, as there is a lot of rust in the sediment bowl. The tank has a little rust in it. I think I will have it cleaned professionally just to make sure it is really clean!


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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by MadMax » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:21 pm

Great to hear!


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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by Ralph F » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:32 am

Just wonder what tools you used from Synder's?
Fitz


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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by BobShirleyAtlantaTx » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:57 am

Someone with a torch can braze the handle, dressed down it wouldn’t be noticeable. Be glad to do it for you, Bob 903-824-1949

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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by DanTreace » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:03 am

Ralph

Believe Milford posted about the lever tool, (tubular sleeve with shoulder to prevent upsetting the end where the spring and cotter pin go, helps to remove the brass lever without much damage. If you try to twist the lever, rusted up, it will break!

Homemade version here, used like a punch. But before use, fully heat the cast iron bulb around the big center nut and around the brass lever, get the iron sediment bulb red-ish hot, then put the assembly into the freezer. When cooled down, the dissimilar metals will have expanded and contracted and the nut and lever can be easily removed. Then clean, repair the filter screen and add new lead washer and rebuild. ;)

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The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by TRDxB2 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:52 am

Really a good article - Note the large nut that holds the brass screen has/had a lead gasket. The heat you applied may have soldered the nut to the bulb. The freezer trick worked like a charm in removing the nut
REBUILDING GASOLINE TANK SEDIMENT BOWLS
By Donald L. Ball
The little sediment bowl on the bottom of the T gas tank is one of the most important parts of the car. It can actually make the difference between a smooth-running engine and one that keeps missing.
What exactly is the purpose of this part? The obvious one is to provide a shutoff for the fuel when either parking the car or working on the fuel line or the carburetor. The more important function, however, is to be a fuel filter and keep the 60-year-old crud in the gas tank from entering the carburetor and fouling things up. The bulb shape provides a convenient place for foreign particles to settle, later to be drained off with the petcock at the bottom. Water, a common ingredient of gasoline in the '20's, can sink to the bottom of the tank, and also collect here. The large nut at the front of the bulb gives access to the fine screen which acts as the filter, keeping whatever sediment there is from flowing down the gas line.

To properly rebuild this unit, it is necessary to disassemble it. Herein lies most of the problems. It is not at all uncommon to see bulbs with broken shutoff handles and the corners of the large nut rounded off. When the part doesn't move, a lot of people take a bigger wrench and end up twisting it off. The secret is not so much leverage as it is patience and temperature, and the right tools.
I
n removing the shutoff, take the cotter pin, spring and washers off the end opposite the handle. Instead of pounding on the small-diameter end of the shutoff, use a socket from a socket set and fit it over the small end and up against the body of the shutoff. I find that a Craftsman 1/4-inch drive, 9/32-inch deep socket will fit over the end and is small enough to enter the body of the bulb. Tap on the end of this socket and the shutoff should come out. If it does not, don't use a bigger hammer. Use temperature.*

The sediment bulbs are made of various combinations of brass body/brass shutoff; steel body/brass shutoff; and steel body/steel shutoff. When parts are tough to move, many people try heat to expand one of the parts and loosen them. On pieces where the holes are much smaller than the main part, applying heat can cause the hole to shrink and lock it in that much tighter. Use just the opposite and stick the part in your freezer for a few hours. This should cause enough shrinkage of parts to loosen them up so that can be easily tapped out.
The same idea applies to the large nut. First use an 8-point socket of about 11/16-inch to fit over the nut flats. If it doesn't move, put it in the freezer and try again later. The large nut has always been brass on the bulbs I have seen and this will shrink more than the steel and cause it to loosen.

After getting everything apart, clean everything and replace the filter screen with brass cloth available at most hardware stores. Tighten the large nut pretty tight after first rubbing the threads with soap to keep them from seizing. Rub soap on the shutoff handle tapered part to keep it from seizing and to keep the gasoline from leaking. Assemble with washers, spring and cotter pin.

When using the shutoff, lightly tap the handle end to seat the valve. Before turning, lightly tap the other end to unseat it. The handle can then be turned by hand without the use of a wrench. Drain the sediment bulb frequently. I have seen cars with the bulb so full it completely blocked the screen and shut off the fuel supply. If done right, a good bulb will keep dirt and such out of the carburetor and will truly make the difference between a smooth-running engine and one that is not.

* NOTE: The bulb MUST be removed from the fuel tank, not only for convenience but also for safety. It should be thoroughly flushed out with water before using any sort of flame to heat it.


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MHSprecher
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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by MHSprecher » Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:01 pm

Great info. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Here is the link to the shutoff removal tool from Snyder's. https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/Prod ... t/gas-tank


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Re: Removing sediment bulb from gas tank

Post by Ralph F » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:00 am

Milford Thanks for sharing the information.
Fitz

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