OT: Unintentionaly altered history

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david_dewey
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OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by david_dewey » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:30 am

Was at the local history museum today for an art show and was looking at the displays (some of which I built years ago) when I noticed the display on women of Butte County in the 1910s and 1920s. There was a picture labeled "Marching for Suffrage in 1911." Behind them was a row of cars and I was trying to identify them when I realized they were all from the 1920s! Apparently it was a parade or some special event at "Chico Normal School" (now known as Calif. State University, Chico)! I don't know how long it has been on display! BTW, years ago when helping catalog the archives I ran across five T coils listed as "batteries" there was also a wagon wheel hub listed as a gold mining monitor nozzle (well, it sort of looks like one when you stand it on end).
Yes, of course I pointed it out to them! BTW, I asked my Linda to tell me if she could see anything wrong with the picture and after a few minutes she said, "Those cars are from the 1920s!" Good girl!!
T'ake care,
David Dewey


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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by wayne sheldon » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:49 am

Neat stuff David. You got a good one there.

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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:38 am

Some of us like to make up the history as we go. It's good you could point those things out. Someday it may be inappropriate to correct the "Experts".
Rich
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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by tmodeldriver » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:57 am

About ten years ago, I visited a car museum in Canton, Ohio which had a pretty early Model T roadster which they were calling a Model S. I pointed out to the guy on duty several things that identified the car as a T, left-hand steering being a biggie. He wasn't interested and seemed to know very little about cars at any rate. I expect that T is still being called an S. They did have some nice old cars and many other relics from the past. Well worth a visit.


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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Gil Fitzhugh » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:59 pm

Since women got the vote in 1919, I wonder what they were marching for in the twenties. The date might not be the only mislabeled thing in that picture!

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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by ArthurB » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:42 pm

I curate the photo collection at our local history museum, and I'm constantly checking with the experts at our local auto/aircraft museum (WAAAM) to validate photo dates by automobile model year. Our DOT also was nice enough to change plate layout every decade, and if I'm lucky I can read the year on the plate. In my experience >50% of the photos in our collection which include historical details have at least one mistake in them. It was especially embarrassing when I published a Memorial Day image of a fallen WWII airman only to learn the photo was of another serviceman.


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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Raoul von S. » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 am

Everyone knows the U.S. Civil war was won by the north because of their guided missile technology
and air superiority. Abe Linciln wrote about it on the I-blog "Salsa" after the war.
"Working today, for a seamless tomorrow"


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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Raoul von S. » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:59 am

Henry Ford is creditied with saving the Raven from extinction, when he developed a synthetic method
of producing the color black from bad moods and toenail clippings. As a result, his cars were all painted
black for the next 10 years, and they sold like hotcakes because of his saving of the species. Look it up.
"Working today, for a seamless tomorrow"


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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by hpetrino » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:25 am

Some years ago I arrived home from work one afternoon. I entered the kitchen and found my wife and our oldest son (then about 25) in a conversation. As I waked in all talking stopped. It was early December and I figured they had been discussing what to get me for Christmas and my upcoming birthday, so I ignored the awkward silence.

My son couldn't stand it. In a effort to fill the gap he looked at me and said, "When was Eisenhower inaugurated?" I said, "The first time or the second time?" He shot back, "The first time." I said without hesitation, "January 20, 1953."

About an hour later I was sitting in the living room. He came in, sat down, looked at me with a suspicious look and said, "You could be so full of crap and I'd never know the difference!" And so it goes with historical facts. Whoever speaks last defines the events, true or not.

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NHUSA
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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by NHUSA » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:53 am

That was a trick question--
Everyone knows that Eisenhower was appointed to his position by the King of England
NH - Where I live - not the carburetor ! :lol:


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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:26 pm

What is less known is that he was named after the Eisenhower Tunnel in Colorado.
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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by hpetrino » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:30 pm

That's right Fred. It was his last Royal act. King George VI died 18 days later, on Feb. 6, 1952, but died happy because he was able to put Ike in office.

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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:07 pm

Garbled history is common among the general population, so I suppose it's no surprise that it traditionally takes a pretty brutal beating at the hands of Hollywood. The offenses range from minor anachronisms to major revisionism, sometimes unintentional and sometimes not. A few examples:

In 42, the recent biopic about Jackie Robinson, a caption identifies the scene as "Interstate 24, Missouri, 1946". Of course there was no Interstate Highway System in 1946.

In The Silver Fox, set in 1903, an apple peeler patented in the 1860's is depicted as the latest remarkable modern marvel.

In Lincoln one of the characters refers to the president's face being on the half dollar.

In Birth of a Nation Klansmen are the heroes.

In countless westerns of the thirties, forties, and fifties, women in the old west have hair styles of the thirties, forties, and fifties.

In The Longest Day all the Americans are white.

I loved Stan & Ollie, but one scene shows a maple leaf Canadian flag in 1953.

For more examples see just about any historical movie.
:)
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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by wayne sheldon » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:34 am

Kind of funny. The past few days, David D and I have traded a few emails about Charley Parkhurst, One of the more colorful characters of the wild West.
I made a comment that I had long believed that the story of Charley Parhurst should be given a big budget Hollywood treatment into a major motion picture. The entire story is so incredible, full of adventure, bad guys, and even quite inspirational, that Hollywood would not need to exaggerate, or add any literary license in any way!
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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Altair » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:28 pm

I was once visiting a car museum in Reno where they had the model T prop used in the movie flizzer (sac) staring Fred MacMurrey and the steering wheel was on upside down. The curator aggressively defended its position while his associate reviewed an original photograph and determined I was correct, they immediately removed it in front of me and turned it correct side up.


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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Altair » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:49 pm

I am a member of a local historical group and many of the texts are littered with incorrect information, conflicting dates, people incorrectly identified, locations incorrect, even at our local city hall that has been in existence for over 100 years where they display all the photos of all the Mayors over the years had an incorrect photo of a mayor my partner pointed it out to them and they were somewhat embarrassed. Many books written on local history have misleading, incorrect and incomplete facts, it seems like the bottom line is to get the book to market and the facts are secondary. There was a local history book hurriedly assembled with verbatim stories from elderly people as they remembered things and it was printed that way and it is littered with incorrect facts, incomplete information and locations inaccurately identified however it has a very attractive cover and sales were brisk, there is an old saying never judge a book by its cover.


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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Rich Bingham » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:14 pm

Wayne, I'd think a movie about Charlie Parkhurst would be a parable for our times . . . :shock: . . . I can just imagine the "spin" a script for such a movie would take.

As for local history, through the past 50-60 years I've seen more historic buildings destroyed without a thought or a care than were ever preserved. Local histories contributed by local folks are seldom in agreement, and are rarely organized into a cogent narrative. Usually, local historical societies have neither the expertise nor the "manpower" to do so. It's a thankless job, and well-meaning volunteers do the best they can. I'm just thankful for their interest and the histories they are able to preserve. It can be a little frustrating living where I live, near the Oregon Trail and the "Gold Road" between Salt Lake City and the Montana mines. Much history of the era prior to the mid 1880's has been lost or mis-represented.
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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Sarikatime » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:00 pm

If you tell a lie loud enough and long enough, people will believe it. That is how communism, amongst other horrific events in history got started and is starting again today. Model T’s will live forever, yah right. Well at least I would like to hope they would ! I like my T.
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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Tmodelt » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:37 am

IMO, history is lost due to the lack of interest by most younger people these days. They do not communicate without the use of technology.

I am almost 60 and I love to talk to the "older" folks. I would sometimes hear the same story many times from my grandfather but he always told it the same way.

My sister-in-law's grandfather was on General George Patton's staff. He was in many photos with him. I suggested that the family sit down and talk with him (if he was willing) to record his memoirs. No dice! Just think of the lost history in just this one example!

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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:53 am

We are losing a lot of great stories as folks age. I didn't fully appreciate my Uncle's stories when I was younger. As we age some of us gain a better attachment to things in the past. Somehow it is easier to relate to these things as we gain experience. While there are some amazing, young historians out there I hope that others will find interest in those things as time goes on.
Optimistic?
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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:02 am

One of the things that made me an odd kid was my appreciation of history. It has always been a minority interest.

"When an old person dies it's like a library burning to the ground."
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by hpetrino » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:30 am

When I was a boy each of my grandfathers would tell me, time after time, stories of their youth. Each of them liked his wine. After dinner another glass was poured and the stories would start. (They barely knew each other, these stories were told to me one on one, me and each grandfather individually.)

My paternal grandfather had some very interesting stories of his youth, his immigration in 1913, and his early years in the USA. As a result of hearing these stories many times I gained not only knowledge of his younger years, but also of living conditions in Italy at the turn of the last century, of early 20th century San Francisco, CA (he arrived there in 1913) and San Jose, CA in the later teens/early 1920's. The story I found most interesting was of he, my grandmother, and my dad (who was 22 months old at the time) visiting the family in Italy in 1922. It's a long story, but the short version is that the Italian army drafted him into service (he was still an Italian citizen). He sent my grandmother and dad (both native American citizens) back to New York to wait for him, then lit out over the Alps to escape into France planning to catch a ship back to NY on the west coast of France. He was arrested 3 times, played checkers through the jail bars with the guards, bribed them and moved on with a guide. This story alone would make a whole mini-series. He actually arrived in New York before my dad and grandmother. (He later became a citizen of the USA.)

My maternal grandfather, likewise, would tell me stories of his youth, his immigration in 1912, and his early years in the coal mines of Illinois. He was drafted into the American army in 1917, trained then just before shipping out to France the war ended and he was discharged. He went back to Illinois, met my grandmother (her dad also worked in the coal mines), they married and within less than 5 years moved to San Jose, CA. He had never seen California, but had heard how great it was from fellows he served with in the army. He told my grandmother we're going to CA. If we stay here I won't live to be 40. She paniced and said, "What about my faminly?" (she had her parents, 5 sisters and 3 brothers). He told her to not worry, they''d all follow, which is exactly how it turned out.

Anyhow, I was very lucky to have known them and to have so many memories of them. Coincidentally, they were both born in 1895 and had a 19th century view of the world, which was evident in all the stories. I feel like I'm the custodian a a lot of our family history. I've started writting it all down for my kids and grandkids. I hope they will find it as interesting as I have.

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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:06 pm

I've started writing it all down...


Yes, that's something we all should do. I'm thankful that some of my relatives born in the 19th century wrote down memories and family stories of pioneer days. I wish more had survived the fire that took the old house in 1917.

Along with writing down the history, label all photos. I have 19th century pictures of relatives and no idea who they are. Everybody who could ID them is long gone.
:(
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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Raoul von S. » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:07 pm

Now we're talkin' ! A subject/perversion near and dear to my heart ... that dark, incessant
craving for old stuff and history. My earliest memories are of standing on boardwalk sidewalks
in California Gold Ruch mining towns in the pre-cutesy years, marveling at the Victorian detail
of the buildings, the ancient overhead telephone and electrical systems, the rusting vehicles
and machinery in the tall, browned out summer grass, and the smell of pine trees.

I was always attracted to old people. They had old stuff. They told wonderful stories. My
mind was filled with wonderful visions and a neverending stream of questions about how things
all tied together. The drive and attraction has never left me. How do you set the valves on a
steam locomotive ? How did people pay their phone bill ? ... build a house ? ... build a road ?
It was all part of a larger fabric of that 19th century mentailty that Henry mentioned.

My interest in old cars came from this. It was in pursuit of this that my friend's and I poked around
in old barns and sheds, went and talked to the old man with the ancient truck, picking apples
off his equally ancient ladder. It is how I found a TT truck in a shed, just like the one I drive today.
It was one of many, but this one never got shoved out in the field to crumble away.

Our culture teaches us from an early age to prize what is new as best, what is most exciting, to
revere the celebrity sparkle of trend and fashion and money, and ignore or disdain the faded and
old. But some of us got dropped on our heads as infants and got all messed up in the noggin, thinking
this old stuff is where it's at and not caring much about new and trendy.

Proud of not following the crowd.
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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Rich Bingham » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:44 pm

Beautifully put, Raoul ! Likely most of us here got dropped on our heads as infants. :lol:
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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by hpetrino » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:14 pm

Steve's advice to label photos is good advice, but be sure to use actual names of people and locations. I have one photo salvaged from my grandmother's stuff that appears to have been taken in the late 1920's. It is a photo of a young man, I know not who, in front of a cave opening, I know not where. On it is written, "Me in front of a cave". I've kept this photo because the optimist in me is confident that some day we'll figure out who it is and where it was taken.


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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by hpetrino » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:29 am

It never ends. I have on the History Channel right now. It's airing, "Presidents at War", a documentary of the military war service of several of our presidents. A moment ago a narrator explained that Jimmy Carter was in training at the end of WWII, but went on with a distinguished career serving in nuclear submarines during the Korean War.

Dang. Our fighting in Korea was 1950-1953. The first US ship to get underway on nuclear power was the USS Nautilus (SSN-571), which occurred on January 17, 1955. Carter did serve in submarines and did attend nuclear power school, but separated from active duty before ever serving on a nuclear powered boat.


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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by wayne sheldon » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:24 am

Henry P, I ran into that very error somewhere over thirty years ago. It has been perpetuated and corrected over and over and over again. And still, it seems to be out there.


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Re: OT: Unintentionaly altered history

Post by Raoul von S. » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:26 pm

Jimmy was the only President to fight for armies on both sides of the Civil War. Please
make a note of it.
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