What should salvage value be?

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rgould1910
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What should salvage value be?

Post by rgould1910 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:39 am

Negotiating with my ins co. Car has been totaled ($10000) due to frame, pan, front end and fender/splash apron damage. ($10,000) What is the salvage value?
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Ruxstel24
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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by Ruxstel24 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:07 pm

Scrap cars are bringing $80-$100 per ton....
I guess that’s a starting point.
Steel is way down.
I hope you can negotiate and make all this a little less painful.
Last edited by Ruxstel24 on Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by John kuehn » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:09 pm

Maybe more if it was parted out but the insurance co. probably wouldn’t accept that. Don’t know for sure to me but that’s not real bad for 10,000. A lot of labor to put it back like it was.
If you were to buy another like it you would spend maybe 10,000 or more. Paying someone for a ground up restoration would be close to 12 or more.


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by Billdizer,Spencer In » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:23 pm

It used to be 20% of the value of the car, for modern cars. Just ask what the buyback price is from the insurance company.

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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by henryford2 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:39 pm

Just a caveat in the state of Ohio, after an accident, a vehicle may be considered a total loss and unsafe for being on the road. Insurance companies may offer the owner of the vehicle the option to buy back the car. However, a new title, marked as “salvage,” is issued with the vehicle. The owner has the option to scrap the vehicle or rebuild it so the vehicle is road-worthy. Before a self-assembled vehicle or a salvage vehicle can be titled in Ohio, an inspection must be completed by the Ohio State Highway Patrol to verify the ownership of all parts (keep your receipts) and to review all required documentation. The title will remain as a "salvage" title. I learned by having a teenager son driving, things may have changed since then.
Always looking for vintage Whizzer engines, bikes & parts. What do you have?

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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by George Mills » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:51 pm

I wouldn't negotiate too long as someone may get dreams of a good return real quick through one of their local tow/store folks that they deal with often.

The insurance company has no real desire to take possession of the car. They would like to lessen their load, but really don't want to put any work into it.

Offer them a thousand...see what they say? Your only other competition is probably going to be a somewhat local tow company/salvage yard that 'might' want to offer something to take it off of the insurance co hands.

Then even if they ask for more and you come to an agreement, agree and never ever mail them the title so that they can mail it back to you. Send them a copy if they want one for their records.

Based on experience...

I lost out on a 41 Chevy light duty truck at salvage once because I offered 250 (in 1974$) and the local junkyard thought it would be nice to 'put out back' and maybe someday recoup their 500$ counter-bid investment. No 'auction' as such, one bid each apparently, high bid won. It sat there at his salvage yard...I later offered to buy it from him for what he 'paid' and he just giggled...and let it rot away.

In another instance I felt good once on a 'total' that would never be right again (but good enough to get by) no matter what I put into it and the insurance company agreed the salvage value was equal to the tow and storage charges, paid direct to the tow truck co. Sweet...until they wanted to borrow the title for paperwork reasons...and I got an Illinois salvage title back! Locals then told me...never, ever surrender a title...find excuses, they go away.

FWIW...Good Luck.


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by John Codman » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:47 pm

I'll bet that there's an easy $3,000 in parts there if you decide to part it out. See what it will take to buy it back from the insurance company - if you can get it for $2,000 or less it's a money maker, or you can take it on as a long-term repair project. I'll bet that you can find all or most of the parts that you need for $5,000 or less. If you decide to part it out there are a few things that I might buy.


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by Terry_007 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:59 pm

Everything depends on the state you are in. If you are given a buy-back option the ins. company will determine salvage value. You can negotiate with them but speak with a senior claims adjudicator rather than the claims "adjuster" assigned to your case. You will want the buy-back to be as low as possible so you maximize the amount you actually end up with. Buy-back price here in Va is deducted from the amount paid on the claim. Ins. companies are anxious to total vehicles rather than mess with continued repair issues so they tend to be quick to pull the trigger on a total, but they are generally anxious to give you a favorable settlement and buy the "good-will." There are some notorious exceptions though. Are you insured with a major specialty antique auto insurer?
In Va, the car does not have to have a salvage title and will remain in your name if the vehicle is more than five years old. Don't know what it's like in your state but do yourself a big favor and look at the law and see for yourself rather than listen to what someone thinks. There should be a website for your state Govt that you can use to search for all the rules and regulations that pertain - or if you are with a good ins company, they can do that research for you. Good luck-sorry this happened to your beautiful T. Let us know how things turn out.
Terry

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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by Susanne » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:35 pm

As long as you are in the same room face to face with the adjudicator, you want it to be low low low because that's what will cost YOU to get your car back and start putting it back together. Otherwise (and I have seen this) if it's all via phone, that low low price will cause their uncle billybob to pop out of the woodwork 10 minutes after you hang up and buy your car out from under you... It sounds ugly, but it happens a lot.

Also, like George said, NEVER relinquish the actual issued title... unless you actually SELL the car. I made the grave error of giving somoene (at a museum) the title to my first car (that they were using in a display) to "sort it out with DMV so I could pick it up next week", and when I went back in a week, with trailer to pick the car up, "You never gave us the title, we've held it all along, now get out before we call the police and have you arrested for trespassing"...

So yeah, everything face to face, and have your checkbook ready.


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by George Hand » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:49 pm

Richard, Clearly vehicle registration & salvage policy's only matter for the state your in & in your case that is California. What I see is a fully repairable Model T. If I had the chance at a beautifully car such as that one it would be repaired. The only part that would present a problem to source would be a near perfect front fender, every other part could be found anywhere like the frame, I would not dare guess how many '26-7 frames are in stock along with a front axle assembly including the wishbone & front spring that MTFCA members have squirreled away in there personal stashes. Get with your Insurance company see what they would do. Again, that is one beautiful automobile, I wished it was here in New York. George

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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by Henry K. Lee » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:54 pm

That front fender is easily repairable! We are to accustom in replacement, back bend and peck.

Hank

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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by TRDxB2 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:16 pm

I'm sure you don't mean scarp value as in junk yard. You may be able to have your T and $$$too. Call your insurance company and say that you'll settle for $8,000 and the car as is. They don't want the car it will cost them additional time, effort and $ to dispose of it and your saving them $2,000, they may counter. You need to talk to the adjuster not just your insurance agent. If they accept I'm sure you can get it back in shape for under $8,000 (shipping included). If they say no, I'll see if I can buy it from them.
Parting it out takes time and effort on your part and yes there is likely money to be made. Get on eBay and look up these items for a price (filter on SOLD items)
This link filters on SOLD & USED anything "MODEL T"
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... ondition=4

Members can give their estimates to this list too
Body sorry but someone may make it into a hot rod $3,000 - $4,500
Fender 2 rear 1 front
Running Boards $120
Splash aprons $120
top
windshield
seats
Ignition switch
Starter switch
Wire wheel hubs front & rear
steering column & steering wheel
Coil box & coils
wire wheels & tires
Nickle Radiator shell
Headlights and tail light
spare tire carrier
Engine & Tran (pan damage?)
Rear axle
Drive shaft & torque tube
Universal Joint
etc


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by hah » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:38 pm

Don't go through insurance company fix the vehicle yourself. Will save you a lot of grief dealing with salvage titles. In the long run you'll be better off emotionally financially is another story.

No matter how you slice it you're in a pickle. Sit back and ask yourself this, "have I ever had an enjoyable encounter with an insurance company after an accident" I know I haven't.

Accident your fault?

If not, you have a ballpark figure for damages, bargain with other party for restitution. They may not want their premiums going up and that blight on their record. If they're reasonable they may see it your way. If not chock it up to a life lesson.

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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by TRDxB2 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:43 pm

hah wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:38 pm
Don't go through insurance company fix the vehicle yourself. Will save you a lot of grief dealing with salvage titles. In the long run you'll be better off emotionally financially is another story.
Very good points - don't let them "total it". Say you have an estimate for $4,000 to fix it (yourself for parts) see what they say.

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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by Henry K. Lee » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:52 pm

Dead On Frank!!!!!


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by Chris Haynes » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:16 pm

If you do buy it back don't be afraid of a salvage title. If you want to get rid of the salvage title simply change the engine and apply for a new title with the new engine number on it.


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by rgould1910 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:10 pm

Thak you all for excellent thoughts, suggestions and advice. Really!

In my case the engine number doesnt match the VIN on the title document. The number on the frame is different still. I only saw that this week. I puchased the car from an estate and never thought to compare.

The insurance co has allready totaled the car so I assume I will be receiving a salvage title. I belive CA requires I take the restored car to the CHP to prove ownership prior to registration. Good luck with that onsidering the VINS don't match! The other problem. I foresee with a salvage title is obtaining insurance if I could register it.

Best bet as I see it is to obtain a new title with the existing engine number.

How's all that sound?


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by tdump » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:23 pm

That car was worth more than 10 grand before it was hit,I can't see them getting out that cheap unless you get to keep the car.
I know with a neigbors toyoda truck,they offered 4600 and take it,or 3600 and he keep it. Engine was worth more than a grand so,he will probably keep and resale.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by Henry K. Lee » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:28 pm

Good Ole Insurance Companies!!!!


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by John kuehn » Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:01 pm

Since the numbers don’t match I wonder if the insurance company knows that. Maybe all they looked at was the paperwork?
Talk about irony I wonder if the insurance adjuster knows that there a LOT of T’s that would be considered salvaged T’s since many ‘restored’ Model T’s were just that to begin with. Many a T has been built up from a pile or partial pile of parts.
Interesting!


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by George Hand » Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:32 pm

Mack Cole, We all know that car is worth more than $10,000, but most insurance companies have an agreed value with the owner that's relative to the premium. One has to decide if you want to insure for more or less of it's market value. Or decide how many times you want to pay for your car if you keep them long enough. I wonder how many times I have paid for my 1969 Chevelle insurance wise, I have had that car 51years waiting for me when I came home from Vietnam.
Richard, Do you still have the car in your possession or is it at a body shop. If it was in my garage I would head to a " Trophy Shop" tomorrow and have them engrave a metal plate with the original Vehicle Identification Number (number on title) & then have the "current" engine number added and marked as a replacement engine, scuff it up a small amount and place it on the inside of the firewall with used hardware.


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by Kerry » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:47 pm

We have a simple system with our insurance carrier, paid out the full amount, get to keep the wreck and no paper work to put back on the road with club permit other than a road worthy.


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by frontyboy » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:30 pm

If you do a buy back the title will be branded as Salvage or total which every your state does. If the accident was not your fault, and you are asking for a settlement from the insureds carrier, and want to buy the salvage you should offer just a couple of hundred dollars to start, they will counter but they have no real idea as to the value. The reason to make a low opening offer if they pay you off and dispose of the salvage they will have to transport the car to the salvage auction pay a commission to them for the sale. All of this is expense to the Ins company. They would prefer a quick and easy out, close the file and go on to the next one.

If you are dealing with your insurance company and you want to buy the salvage and they brand the title, you are entitled to ask for diminished value compensation, because a branded title makes any salvage car worth less. Another thing to consider is that some insurance companies will not insure a branded title car. Also many financial institutions will not finance a branded title car.

frontyboy


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by tdump » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:45 am

Well forgive the observation,but we tend to think the insurance companys are dumb as far as value.But they can also read on the internet.It would not surprise me at all that the adjuster might have done a google search before offereing a settlement and may even be checking this thread.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by Terry_007 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:16 am

So, what is the law in CA on salvage titles? As has already been mentioned, don't surrender the title! Looks like the vehicle is at your home, so lock the door - it's still your car. You've not mentioned yet who our ins company is. Curious to know if you are working with one of the specialty antique auto insurance companies or your "regular" ins. co.
Terry


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by HPetrino » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:30 am

The "Salvage Vehicle" laws vary from state to state. I suggest you spend a little time on the CA DMV website and research the various aspects of the situation specifically as to CA law. Since this forum is nationwide (international for that matter) some of the responses here may or may not be applicable to your situation.

Go to the www.dmv.ca.gov website. Be sure you are on the official DMV site and not one of the many commercial sites that allege to be there to help you. Enter "salvage title" in the search box and then read the items that apply.

Good Luck!


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by Jeff Hood » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:34 pm

If the car is insured for a certain amount, or if it is an agreed value policy, and the repair estimate is near or exceeding that amount or value, then the insurance company will pay the agreed value and request the title. They are essentially buying the car from you for the agreed value. If you then want to buy the car back from the insurance company you will have a salvage title because you sold them the car, surrendered the title, and then purchased the totaled wreck back from them.

However I believe there is another way. I know of at least one car, in California, a Model T in fact, that was considered a total loss by the insurance company. The damage was very similar to what is pictured here. The owner told the insurance company that he did not want his car totaled, that he could fix it himself for less than the estimates, and was able to negotiate a lower settlement, keep the car, and retain the title.

Don't give up, go higher up the chain if need be. Don't surrender the title. Negotiate for a lower amount. Bottom line, the insurance company doesn't care if the car is totaled and removed from the highways or not. They just want to pay out the least amount of money that they can.


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by rgould1910 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:52 pm

Jeff, thanks for reaching out to me by email. Just as
as you suggested, I will try to negotiate a reduced award and avoid a salvage title. One concern is the high dollar buy back value they presented me just today on a take it or leave it basis, $2800. That means I would have to accept less than $7200 to avoid a salvage title to make it worth their while financially.

Perhaps I should accept a salvage title and get a new title as if I purchased another car under a bill of sale with a vin the same as the motor number. I'll know more when the adjuster returns my call.

Thanks for the advice, Jeff and thanks to all who have responded. Its been a big help.


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by kmatt2 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:27 pm

Richard,. Be careful in dealing with the CA D.MV they will probably make you go to the CHP if you go the bill of sale engine number route. The CHP will look for a frame number on a 1926 1927 T. I do not think a licensed verafyer can do bills of sale anymore they have to see a good title from any state. Of course frame numbers have been known to rub off and be unreadable after many years of hard use. If the other car was at fault for running a stop sign your insurance company should be able to get you a beter number on salvage value, say 1500 to 1800,. the 2800 number is to high. As you know they are trying to shaft you, get another company for your antique cars next renewal., let them know that.


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by tdump » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:42 pm

If the other person is at fault,why is the T owners insurance involved? The driver at fault's insurance should be paying for the damage shouldn't they?
And DITTO on locking the garage door if the car is at your home. When I got hit in my station wagon in december of 95, a couple days later I got a call "200 Bucks and we take thecar,final offer". I told them to kiss off and I went to work on getting more money. Mean time,I was taking a nap in the car at work the next day,guess what woke me up? A tow truck backing up to my car! The look on the drivers head when he saw me looking at him was priceless,he got the )$($ out of dodge,I got my 650 and kept the car.Still drive it,
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by kmatt2 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:09 pm

See,. Accident today ,. June 18 2020 post


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by Allan » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:32 am

Further to Frank's post re insurance her in Australia, all my cars are insured for an agreed value, and the premiums calculated accordingly. My modern cars are on the same policy, and I get a considerable multi car discount. I have yet to have a claim on an old car, but a friend had his 27 tourer T boned and written off. The insurance was paid out at the agreed value, and the wreck retained as a condition of the policy. His son rebuilt the car for far less than the payout, and it is now better than ever.
Do any of the US insurers offer agreed value policies, with the right to retain the wreck?

Allan from down under.


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Re: What should salvage value be?

Post by rgould1910 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:07 am

Kevin I hear you about those darn frame numbers becoming unreadable after years. of hard use.

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