Stuck tie rod end?

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ivaldes1
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Stuck tie rod end?

Post by ivaldes1 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:57 pm

Hi my tie rod end is stuck. I've heated, I've penetrated oiled, I have twisted with a drift on the other side, I've stuck a chisel into the split, it won't budge. My vise is currently non-functional.
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John kuehn
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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by John kuehn » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:31 pm

Set the tie rod ball end on a anvil or vise and use a ball pein or small hammer to slightly beat on the different sides of the end. Go all around it in this manner several times to loosen it up.
Remember to tap on the tie rod ball end as that’s the one you want to get to move!

Another way to loosen it would be to clamp the rod in a vise and just turn the end piece. But be sure to take a hammer and give some good taps all around the end.

This is the way to loosen pipe fittings or threaded fittings on a threaded pipe or shaft. It usually works every time. Using penetrating oil helps too while your loosening it.

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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by Mark Gregush » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:27 pm

Careful with the punch, don't booger up the thread in the bottom, then you will be looking for a tap.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by kmatt2 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:34 pm

Frist take a wire brush in your electric drill and clean off all the paint at the tie rod end to tie rod interface. Then heat again and some taps with the hammer as said by other post. It should come lose with that. Some of that paint pobably wicked into the threads and is keeping it from looseinimg.

.


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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:55 pm

I bought a re-threading die for the tie rod. The threads are always dinged up and fill of rust, dirt and old paint. The die cleans them up like new.

Stephen


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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by Norman Kling » Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:19 pm

I would suggest you put the spindle bolt back in place and then use a long bar through the loop between the bolt and the end of the rod and try again. You might even do this with both ends and have a friend hold one end while you turn the other.
Norm

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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by ivaldes1 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:33 pm

Mark the tie rod end that has the drift in it is already pre-boogered, the threads are long gone. I wonder if a tap would have enough metal for threads?
Mark Gregush wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:27 pm
Careful with the punch, don't booger up the thread in the bottom, then you will be looking for a tap.

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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:44 pm

It is a critical piece.., when you question it, cut it up and throw it away!

Just Sayin'

Hank


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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by John kuehn » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:57 pm

I just replaced the tie.rod ball end on my 21 Touring with a NOS one from Lang’s.
The yoke was worn and I could have used a thin washer to take up the slack but the NOS one from Lang’s with all new threads worked wonderfully. I had a couple of good used ones in my parts. You can’t beat a brad new one though.

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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by ivaldes1 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:47 pm

I was finally able to get it off with a pipe wrench near the fitting so the rod doesn't twist. It turns freely now. I spun it out and cleaned the threads inside with a brass brush and a drill mounted steel brush for the rod threads. They look good. However, the other side non-adjustable tie rod fitting bolt thread is pretty much gone.


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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by John kuehn » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:56 pm

If you don’t have another tie rod call Lang’s and they usually have lots of good used parts.
Just a thought. You may have a good one.

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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by ivaldes1 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:17 pm

There is a sentimental value for the family of these pieces so I am trying to preserve as many as I can. I have a welder and a tap and die set but I don't know if I have a tap big enough. I think I will try to build it back up and re-thread it.


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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:49 pm

Any damaged front end components should be replaced. They are critical to the safety of the car. Front axle parts are easy to find and not usually expensive.

Stephen

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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by ivaldes1 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:30 am

An offline tip said try to helicoil the tie rod end. I tried, it isn't working. The helicoil either spins out or if it doesn't spin out the bolt just gets stuck. I have only 2 helicoils left.
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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by ivaldes1 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:31 am

An offline tip said try to helicoil the tie rod end. I tried, it isn't working. The helicoil either spins out or if it doesn't spin out the bolt just gets stuck. I have only 2 helicoils left.
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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by jiminbartow » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:27 am

I see no threads showing beyond the shoulder of the end. Are you sure it is made to screw off? Perhaps the adjustment must be done from the other end of the tie rod. Jim Patrick


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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by jiminbartow » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:38 am

A machinist can drill that out for you, tap with a larger tap, screw in a Grade 2 bolt, center and drill out the bolt and retap using the correct sized tap. Beats throwing it away like some suggest. I too, do not like to throw away original Model T parts and will spend extra, if necessary, to restore them if it is possible. Jim Patrick


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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by kmatt2 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:49 am

Try using some red locktight in the tie rod end to help hold the helicoil in place, no spin out. The helicoil must align with the upper tie rod hole for the tie rod bolt not to jam. Try placing the tie rod bolt threw the upper hole but short of the lower hole, next spin the helicoil onto the tie rod bolt all the way to the shoulder. Now put the red locktight in the lower tie rod hole. Next screw the tie rod bolt down into the lower tie rod hole so that the helicoil is in the proper position. Let the locktight dry for a while then unscrew the tie rod bolt. The helicoil should stay in place. After a little more drying time try screwing the tie rod bolt back in it should screw in to the proper place. If this doesn't work it's off to the machine shop to clean, weld, and tap the tie rod end or find another tie rod.


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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by Allan » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:52 am

Helicoils need some way to lock them in place. In an open hole like that, and on the bottom hole on the front axle which takes the spindle bolt, there is nothing to stop the helicoil from winding through. A Keysert is a better idea for this operation. It has locking tabs to hold it in place, and being a cylinder rather than a coil of thread, it will not deform as easily.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by jiminbartow » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:16 am

In such a key position, I would not use a heli coil. If it came out while you were driving, you could lose your steering. When the wheels toed in it could cause you to flip end over end without warning.


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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:39 am

Replace the tie rod. They are easy to find and cheap.

Stephen

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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by Mark Gregush » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:34 pm

jiminbartow wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:16 am
In such a key position, I would not use a heli coil. If it came out while you were driving, you could lose your steering. When the wheels toed in it could cause you to flip end over end without warning.
How would it come out while driving? It is locked on the top by the tie rod bolt and bottom by the cotter pinned nut.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by Scott_Conger » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:48 pm

I can clearly see in your picture that you have NOT broken the drive tang off, thus the bolt will simply screw the helicoil out. Every time.

Helicoils are larger than the hole and expand tightly into them. They are used in through-holes in industry everywhere.

After installing ANOTHER helicoil, with the free end of the coil, meaning the non-driven end of the coil to be 1/2 to 3/4 revolutions below the face of the tie-rod, simply grind off the extra that is sticking out which will remove the tang as well. Your repair will be perfectly secure and safe.
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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by John kuehn » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:36 pm

A good original tie rod assembly can be found fairly easy. I think I would find another and save time and money.


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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by Original Smith » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:05 pm

The picture you posted, is not the side that comes off!

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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by RustyFords » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:29 pm

I know it's after-the-fact and you've removed it already but for those wanting another suggestion.....

I heated my tie-rod end with a propane torch (not cherry red or anything....just put some heat into it) then dunked the whole end into a coffee can filled with a mixture of 50% acetone and 50% transmission fluid.

I let it sit there for a couple hours. It didn't take a lot of effort to remove the end after that.

SAFETY NOTE: my concoction is obviously flammable....so keep your distance and have a fire extinguisher handy, when making the initial dunk.
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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by Norman Kling » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:10 pm

If you find another one the same year as this one, and it is in good condition, it won't look any different than it did before. Is "semental" value worth more than safety? When a tie rod comes off, you can suddenly lose control of the steering. This could cause a head on or a roll over. Fix it right. For semental value, you could hang the old piece on your garage wall.
Norm

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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by ivaldes1 » Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:13 pm

Took it to a machine shop and they fixed it. -- IV


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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by jiminbartow » Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:26 pm

Great move. That is what I would have done. You saved an original Model T part that has been on your car since it left the factory 96 years ago. To some, that is not important, but, to me that means something. Congratulations! Jim Patrick

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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by Mark Nunn » Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:19 am

It took me a few cycles last week to remove the yoke on my '26. The seam in the rod was twisted near the end about 15 degrees from a previous adjustment. That told me that I was in for a battle.

I used a MAPP gas torch followed by a generous flood of WD-40. And, repeat. I don't use the aerosol WD-40, just the liquid in a squirt bottle. I would not want to cause a fire from the aerosol propellant.


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Re: Stuck tie rod end?

Post by John kuehn » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:25 am

Good to know you got the original tie rod end fixed.
I also saved the original block and a few other pieces that was on my Grandfathers 24 Coupe I inherited years ago.
The block was cracked through a valve seat area. I used another good block that I had.

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