13T - Spoke and hub issue

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Darin Hull
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13T - Spoke and hub issue

Post by Darin Hull » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:26 pm

I was inspecting my spokes today and one wheel’s spokes appear to have possibly crossed the line into a safety issue. I have done the tap test multiple times before on all my spokes and they sound fine. No knocks or any other sounds when I’m driving. But I took a closer look at some discoloration and I was able to chip some of the wood away, near the hub, with my fingernail (1st and 3rd pic). Is that normal? The other wheels’ spokes seem fine (2nd pic). I’ve contacted Stutzman, might be time to get all the spokes done to hit the reset button at the same time.

Lastly, quick question about front hubs. Are there differences or are front hubs all the same. One of my current front hubs has damaged threads that make it hard to get a hubcap on... and it won’t screw down tight on all the threads. I have some spare T wheels which aren’t demountable (4th pic). Can I use this as a replacement hub?

Darin
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TWrenn
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Re: 13T - Spoke and hub issue

Post by TWrenn » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:05 pm

Without being able to tap on them or check for looseness, from your pics they don't look all THAT bad. Use your gut, not so much your wallet if possible! It is expensive though. But what price safety and peace of mind?

Re the hub in the last pic, sure you can use it. It is a later hub, as it has the wider "shoulder" right past the cap threads. But probly 90% of earlier cars have at least one on them, due to abuse over the early years, and the lack of a correct replacement, as the hub was improved with the style in your last pic. I believe the change was in 1916.

And of course, you know all the wheels really should be the non-demountable type anyway, but the demountables sure are a lot handier!!


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Re: 13T - Spoke and hub issue

Post by dhosh » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:27 pm

From the looks of the bolt heads, your bolts may be moving a bit. Are they all tight? I.e. the nits on the inside? That can make a world of difference, and if loose, can really accelerate damage to the spokes. I didn't see where you're from.... If your car would be 'down' in the winter, where sending a couple wheels in at a time may not crimp your driving style.
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Darin Hull
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Re: 13T - Spoke and hub issue

Post by Darin Hull » Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:24 pm

Gentlemen,

I’ll check the things you mentioned. This is where having a normal, non-COVID, year sure would be a benefit in order to meet a Model T club. Some experienced folks having the 13T right in front of them could quickly tell the conditions of the spokes since they could go hands on. I know pics make it hard to tell anything but I appreciate the input.

I may see if I can post better pics tomorrow and look at the bolt heads.

Darin


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Darin Hull
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Re: 13T - Spoke and hub issue

Post by Darin Hull » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:46 pm

Checked the bolts on the front hubs and they’re tight. A closer of pic of the two worst spokes. No spokes seem to be loose. The rest of the spokes all are in better condition than these two.

I don’t know how deep the issue goes into the center of the spoke but you can push a fingernail into the surface of these spokes and the wood chips away easily. The rest of these spokes I’ve a good sound if you tap it in the middle of the spoke.
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Re: 13T - Spoke and hub issue

Post by TWrenn » Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:44 pm

Well, there is an old adage, mostly food-service related, that goes "If in doubt, throw it out".
Use your gut Darin, since you're there beating on it! I've seen worse, but in the last batch of pics, the top one does
have a bit of concern right at the hub plate. I think if it were me, I would send it to Noah. What's another $264 in the grand scheme of things? ;)

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John.Zibell
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Re: 13T - Spoke and hub issue

Post by John.Zibell » Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:57 pm

If you question the spokes, replace them. As for the threads, you may be able to clean them up with this. https://www.modeltford.com/item/2815T.aspx
1926 Tudor

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Re: 13T - Spoke and hub issue

Post by CudaMan » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:35 pm

The cracked spokes and wood that you can chip out with a fingernail tells me that your spokes have reached the end of their useful life, IMO.

It looks like you have Hayes felloes. Be aware that Hayes felloes take a slightly longer spoke:

https://www.modeltford.com/item/2800HS-HY.aspx

If you decide to build a wheel press and replace your own spokes, you can also replace the hardware store carriage bolts with the correct hub bolts at the same time. The hub bolts in the set are the correct length for the rear wheels, but can be trimmed a little shorter to look correct for the front wheels if you desire.. If your car has Rocky Mountain brakes then the rear wheels need an even longer rear hub bolt.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/2825BQS.aspx

https://www.modeltford.com/item/RMB-BOLT.aspx

Here is a link to an older thread showing my first attempt at wheel rebuilding. These wheels had Kelsey felloes, which also take the slightly longer spoke like the Hayes. You can do it!

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/41 ... 1404960383
Mark Strange
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Re: 13T - Spoke and hub issue

Post by Original Smith » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:25 am

If you are never going to go much of anywhere, then you wheels will be ok. For touring, I'd replace them. Paint them too! Many people won't agree with me on that one. There are many wheel makers out there, but the best is Calimer's in Pennsylvania.

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Re: 13T - Spoke and hub issue

Post by TonyB » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:16 pm

I expanded the very first picture and there appears to be a rusty line and a clear line around the hub. To me this implies the hub is moving with respect to the spokes. If the nuts are tight then is time for new spokes. I made a spoke press and have rebuilt several demountable wheels quite successfully. I wouldn’t even try wheels with wood Feloes
Tony Bowker
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