Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Darin Hull
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:15 pm
First Name: Darin
Last Name: Hull
Location: Cartersville, GA
MTFCA Number: 29699
MTFCI Number: 25147
Board Member Since: 2010

Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by Darin Hull » Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:46 pm

Last I heard, Fun Projects has still not rereleased their VRs for sale. I currently have a 6v system but would the following be an alternative, though obviously a non-stock appearance, for someone with a 6v system? A temporary alternative until Fun Project VRs are once again in stock.

https://www.steinertractor.com/ABC153-6 ... -Regulator

Electrical is not my thing so I don’t know how to judge this product as acceptable or not. If it isn’t, anyone have some alternatives?

Darin
Attachments
31138738-D2BE-451F-B4B7-D5C862A457EC.jpeg


jab35
Posts: 326
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Bartsch
Location: Dryden, NY 13053
MTFCA Number: 30615
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by jab35 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:13 pm

The description says for use with two brush generators only, so I would say not for model T 3-brush generator.

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 2582
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by Mark Gregush » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:35 pm

You could use it, but would require rewiring the generator.
Just get the diode type that fits your ground. The suppliers all carry them and that would be my choice over the current original style.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup


Topic author
Darin Hull
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:15 pm
First Name: Darin
Last Name: Hull
Location: Cartersville, GA
MTFCA Number: 29699
MTFCI Number: 25147
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by Darin Hull » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:06 pm

Mark, is overcharging the battery a concern with a diode?

Darin


Topic author
Darin Hull
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:15 pm
First Name: Darin
Last Name: Hull
Location: Cartersville, GA
MTFCA Number: 29699
MTFCI Number: 25147
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by Darin Hull » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:16 pm

James, I can’t believe I missed the two brush detail... it’s only in bold. smh

User avatar

dykker5502
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:01 pm
First Name: Michael
Last Name: Deichmann
Location: Blistrup, Denmark
MTFCA Number: 29116
Board Member Since: 2007

Re: Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by dykker5502 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:43 pm

Darin Hull wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:06 pm
Mark, is overcharging the battery a concern with a diode?
Yes. You still have to choose a charging level with the 3rd brush.
Ford Model T 1914 Touring
Ford Model T 1921 Roadster Pick-up
Ford Model T 1922 Fordor (danish build body)
ECCT, Strobospark, HCCT, Rebuilding coils

User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 1278
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:52 am

Can either of these be used with/without a cut-out. Located at the battery.
Caution some vintage motorcycles are positive ground - this is a negative ground no info on 3-brush but some cycles were
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SOLID-STATE-6- ... 3445642197
cycle             reg.jpg
cycle reg.jpg (16.81 KiB) Viewed 781 times
Can these be used either as a voltage regulator for the battery OR to provide 12volt output - headlights USB charger
https://www.banggood.com/Geekcreit-DC-6 ... rehouse=CN
10A BB.jpg


Luke
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:04 am
First Name: Luke
Last Name: P
Location: New Zealand

Re: Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by Luke » Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:20 am

The three-brush generator on the Model T (and Model A) will work fine at either 12V or 6V. In standard form you need to use a cutout (mechanical or solid state) and manually adjust the current - there is plenty of good information on this site how to do that.

Better still you can use a voltage regulator, however it's very important to note that it needs to be what's known as a shunt regulator (i.e. it works across the generator output - not in series with it). In fact if you ever want to stop your generator charging you should short it out (directly at the generator output and before the cutout) rather than disconnect it as that will also cause damage.

Most solid state or mechanical regulators designed for cars/bikes are the series type and will not work with the Model T. If you use a series regulator on you standard T, or A, then likely as not you'll damage the generator. From a brief glance, Frank, I think the ones you show are series regulators, sorry.

I'm not sure about the 'Fun Projects' regulators, I've never seen one, but if they're a shunt regulator complete with integral cutout (or utilise the existing cutout) they should be ok - as should any other shunt regulator+cutout capable of handling the current.

FWIW I did design a suitable shunt regulator using a TL494 and a handful of components, and may have some time to put that up here at the end or the year, in case anyone's interested in rolling their own. The beauty about this is that many people may have most of the necessary components already, but that's a matter for a future and different thread.


Gonenorth
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:04 pm
First Name: Kevin
Last Name: Whelihan
Location: Danbury, WI
MTFCA Number: 30688
Board Member Since: 2008

Re: Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by Gonenorth » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:26 am

I've been looking at regulator/rectifiers as an alternative as well. Found some three wire units and a couple of two wire units. Regulator rectifiers are pretty common in some motorcycles and lots of outboards. Basically, they allow voltage to charge the battery and when that requirement has been reached, they shunt excess voltage to ground. Lots of 12 volt units out there, but I am still searching for the correct 6 volt unit for my purposes. You would still have to set the third brush for your desired output.

Anyone hear any news from Birdhaven if and when they will have the Fun Projects line of regulators back up and available?


Jerry VanOoteghem
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:06 pm
First Name: Jerry
Last Name: VanOoteghem
Location: S.E. Michigan

Re: Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:00 am

Darin Hull wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:06 pm
Mark, is overcharging the battery a concern with a diode?

Darin
It's not concern if you set your generator output correctly. I set mine to put out about 8 amps. I have never had a battery or generator issue at that setting.

User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 1278
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:32 pm

Luke wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:20 am
Most solid state or mechanical regulators designed for cars/bikes are the series type and will not work with the Model T. If you use a series regulator on you standard T, or A, then likely as not you'll damage the generator. From a brief glance, Frank, I think the ones you show are series regulators, sorry.
Question then can the exposed electronics be adapted to work properly - it costs $10 with $1. 50 shipping. There are many similar but this had voltage & amperage in the range.
Found this on the web https://1925modeltford.wordpress.com/20 ... regulator/
hb-reg-labs-removed.jpg
V 3.jpg
V 3.jpg (15.14 KiB) Viewed 601 times

User avatar

John E. Guitar
Posts: 279
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:52 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Guitar
Location: Sydney
Board Member Since: 2012

Re: Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by John E. Guitar » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:50 pm


User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 1278
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:24 pm

John E. Guitar wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:50 pm
There is some interesting information here:
https://www.cool386.com/regulator/regulator.html
https://www.cool386.com/battery/battery.html
Thanks for the links - I had saved the first but couldn't find it. The second makes as Arty Johnson on Laugh-In "Very Interesting" reading first indeed,
SG3524N $0.57 ea. https://www.digikey.com/en/products/det ... gKVmfD_BwE
So for the electronically minded - is it lieu of stuffing this to fit in the cut-out cup; could the existing cut-out be left in place and this circuitry put in a black box and connected between the cut-out and the ammeter Or even at the battery connection?
The components are inexpensive - the labor is where the cost is.


jab35
Posts: 326
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Bartsch
Location: Dryden, NY 13053
MTFCA Number: 30615
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by jab35 » Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:24 am

From the cited article:
"IC not SG3524. Subsequent experimentation to reconstruct the regulator on a breadboard revealed that unfortunately the IC is not an SG3524. Trying an SG3524 in the actual FP voltage regulator was not successful either"

fwiw, jb


Luke
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:04 am
First Name: Luke
Last Name: P
Location: New Zealand

Re: Fun Projects VR Alternative?

Post by Luke » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:50 pm

TRDxB2 wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:32 pm
...
Question then can the exposed electronics be adapted to work properly - it costs $10 with $1. 50 shipping.
...
Frank,

I couldn't see any schematic with that link, but from what I could tell from the photograph the high-current components looked as if they may well be wired as a you would expect a shunt regulator to be.

It'd be interesting to know what the IC was* but if it were the SG3524 John E and Jim mention then the cct is probably a similar design to the one I've come up with using a TL494 (they're quite similar), so I'd expect it to work fine. At the end of the day they're just a switching regulator, which have long become a very common thing.

In terms of your other question regarding use of the existing cutout. If you were to source all components new (or were very good at removing components from old boards) then I see no reason why not - at least as far as the carapace/chassis is concerned.

You would need to remove whatever mechanical components there were inside and fit the requisite electronics. It may be possible to also utilise an existing diode from a solid-state cutout, but as I've never seen one I couldn't be certain of that (IMV you'd want to use a schottky diode). Similarly to the photograph you've shown you'd try and utilise the chassis as a heatsink for the high-current devices.

*UPDATE - I had another quick look at the link (to see if there was a schematic mentioned) and scrolled down to discover a Q&A I'd not seen previously. That seems to confirm it's the SG device, so my comments stand.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic