help deciding about holes on cross member

[NY John T]

Hi All,
Happy Holidays to all. I'm fixing my 26 front cross member and I'm wondering about the holes on either side of the square hole used for the spring bolt.
1. what's the purpose and are they original?
2. should I weld up the holes? Will that weaken the steel?
3 was there a piece of metal on the top of the crossmember (top plate?) which covered the holes? I've seen some shots of crossmembers which "seem" to have a piece of metal there; and there are indications of the edges wearing into the cross member. This front end has 11 springs (don't know why), but maybe the thickness was the reason for removing the "top plate"
Anyway, the main reason for my inquiry is: should I weld up the extra holes?
Thanks again,
John

[TRDxB2]

Out of curiosity what does your front spring clip look like. Maybe something was done to secure a broken clip

[Rich Eagle]

This is from a Ken Findlay photo a few years back. I don't remember seeing holes there before.

Rich

[NY John T]

TRD:
My spring clip is exactly like the one on the right.

[Steve Jelf]

NOS

[NY John T]

Steve:
Thanks for that photo. I've seen it before. What looks like what I'll call "nubs" are in the positions of the holes on my crossmember. Here's a possible scenario:
There was a plate that was located on top of the crossmember and used the "nubs" to position it. Then this axle had more springs added and the spring bolt didn't fit. They therefore removed the "top plate" (if there was one) and drilled out the "nubs".
Sound logical everybody?
So in the NOS crossmember there are no holes.
Therefore I think I will weld up the holes. Unless someone else chimes in with a different theory.
Thanks all for your help.
John

[Steve Jelf]

There's no "top plate", but there is a pad (#3823, Page 24) that goes on top of the spring.

Originally it was leather, but some make it from rubber (an old tire).

[NY John T]

Thanks Steve. Great help. So my next question is:
In the shot of the NOS crossmember you can see two "nubs"/"nipples" next to the square hole. Would the purpose of these "nubs" be to help locate precisely where the spring clip goes? Kinds seems like it to me.
Anybody have any thoughts?
John

[bulman]

Hi; On my 26 coupe the nubs fit into detents in the spring plate to locate it.

[NY John T]

Thanks all,
I think I figured it out. The "nubs", which are missing, would have fit against the edge of the spring plate above it. I just wonder why someone would drill them out... Any way, here's a shot of my cross member and spring plate. You can see that the missing nubs would have lined up with the spring plate and would have helped to locate it. Maybe this is why the cross member was cracked and wobbled and everything is out of alignment with warn shackles. Maybe I should weld on new nubs?
John

[Mark Gregush]

Rubber tire piece is nice, but it is going to be too thick. I am thinking it only should be about 1/8" thick, it is an anti-squeak pad.

[TRDxB2]

Not sure about where you got the frame. But it looks similar to a Model A. Maybe someone put an A engine on the frame? But I understand other modes were necessary to do that. Is the hole for the spring bolt larger than the head of the bolt?

[TFan]

This is from the forum a few years ago, it says 1910 but may still be the same in later years. Jim

[Steve Jelf]

John, looking at your second picture you can see the remains of the "bump" to the left of the center hole. I see two choices for you: 1 install a new cross member; 2 fill those holes and weld on new bumps positioned to fit the outside ends of the spring clip recesses so the clip can't slip to either side.

[NY John T]

Hi Steve. That's what I'm planning on doing. Welding shut the two holes and adding bumps/nubs where they will keep the cross member from shifting. Apparently this cross member did shift. So much that the square bolt hole was only square on three sides. The bolt is a round head bolt; maybe from being slid around a bit. Or maybe they only had a round head leaf spring bolt. You'll note that I'm in the process of making the opening square again. Looks like I'll have a bit of measuring to do to get the nubs in the correct position.
Thanks folks.
John

[Norman Kling]

There should be no problem with centering the spring and the spring holder. The square bolt at the top of the spring should fit right into the hole in the crossmember. The pad should be thin enough to allow that bolt head to fit into the square hole. The plate bolted to the bottom of the spring has a hole in it through which the bottom of the spring center bolt with nut fits, so that would center the plate. The top of the spring holder has the hole for the front bearing on the engine through which the crank fits and the little hole below the crank is for a screw in the center of the front splash apron. You should tighten the nuts under the spring and install the cotter pins and everything should remain in place. those two holes drilled right and left of the center bolt are not for a Model T. Maybe TRD is right. It looks like someone installed a Model A front motor mount.
Norm