Some questions about a replacement radiator

[dunoon]

I've tried them all and it looks like I'm going to have to replace my radiator. A fellow that was visiting the area in his 14 T said he has replaced a lot of T radiators with aluminum radiators from speed shop suppliers. He it's just a matter of taking it to a aluminum weld shop and have them change the position of the outlets. A neighbor gave me a Speedway Motors catalog that has a radiator the right size. I looked into it and there core only has 2 rows of tubes not as most folks recommend also they don't have an overflow tube. My thought is if that radiator can keep a chevy V-8 cool it should be OK for a T, and what can I do about no over flow tube? Thanks for any suggestions

[Humblej]

Made for a modern engine for a cooling system under pressure and with a water pump. Not what a t engine is designed for.

[Hudson29]

I'm more than a little confused about your post. I too have a '14 and it is running warm. I've tried a number of flushes and get more crap out each time but its still marginal in 80° weather.

A new radiator like the ones Brassworks sells should keep the car plenty cool IF everything else is OK. A clean set of passages in the block & head are essential. No radiator will cool if the motor is blocked or if there are other problems such as timing & mixture.

Please give us a few more details about your situation.

Paul

[Scott_Conger]

Personally, I would not let that fellow within 100 yds of my cars.

That's a lot of work to do to end up with a jury-rigged car. I can only imagine the sort of repairs he's done over the years. But then again, I've fixed a lot of dubiously or poorly done work in my life, so I may have actually seen a couple (but no pressurized aluminum radiators!).

[dunoon]

Prior to checking out a new radiator, I cleaned and flushed the engine, had the radiator rodded out, used distilled water with Water Wetter, It was better but still over heats. Checked timing and mixture.

[TWrenn]

Bottom line...bite the bullet and give you and your car an early Christmas present and just order a new FLAT TUBE brass radiator for your '14 and be done with it. Been there, done that, and MORE than once! JMHO

[TWrenn]

Ok...I misunderstood. Looks like you have a '26....so now you're getting off cheap!!

[TXGOAT2]

Prior to checking out a new radiator, I cleaned and flushed the engine, had the radiator rodded out, used distilled water with Water Wetter, It was better but still over heats. Checked timing and mixture.

All that suggests the cooling system may not the problem. Exactly what is the problem? Are you certain that the car is actually overheating? Note that it is normal for a Model T to run at the point of boiling, but should not boil over under ordinary circumstances. If it does, you may have issues like dragging brakes, dragging transmission bands, or a leaking head gasket. It is also possible for the head gasket to be installed incorrectly, which can lead to overheating.

[Humblej]

What makes you believe it is overheating?

[dunoon]

When I stop and shut it down you can hear the water boiling. I bought this 26 coupe in 1962 when I was 15, I drove it constantly till 1965. I don't ever remember it overheating, except when I was in a parade. I don't think adding a water pump would make much of a difference. This car is not intended to be a show-car, just a go car.

[Ruxstel24]

When I stop and shut it down you can hear the water boiling. I bought this 26 coupe in 1962 when I was 15, I drove it constantly till 1965. I don't ever remember it overheating, except when I was in a parade. I don't think adding a water pump would make much of a difference. This car is not intended to be a show-car, just a go car.

If you have the water level about 3-4” below the top and it’s not spitting out...what you described is normal, especially when it’s hot out.
As long as it doesn’t boil over while driving, it’s normal to hear churning after you shut it off.
The temperature will rise also for a few minutes due to no air going through the radiator.

[TXGOAT2]

You may have a marginal overheating problem. Or not. I suggest you try running a 50-50 mix of "green" antifreeze and water. That will raise the boiling point a few degrees over that of plain water. Pay close attention to initial timing and use the spark advance lever as appropriate. Be sure the spark advance linkage is working properly. Also check for dragging brakes, overtight bands, and underinflated tires.

[dunoon]

Some have mentioned that I may have placed the head gasket on wrong, what is the correct way

[Dan Hatch]

Big hole to the back. Look in service manual.

[Scott_Conger]

the gasket hole difference is real, and will definitely act to block a very small % of flow area. However, while many folks swear it will cause overheating, I can say that I have found many mis-installed head gaskets in cars which ran perfectly cool. If the car has rust build up in the head and block and a radiator with loose cooling fins, I agree that the gasket could now be a very small contributing factor in a marginal system, but I do not believe that it is in and of itself a problem in an otherwise sound vehicle.

Gurgling sound from thermo-syphoning after shut off is not an indication of overheating anyway.

[John kuehn]

Is the radiator a round tube or flat tube. Over the years Radiators do wear out. If it’s an old original they lose their cooling capabilities even though they don’t leak and look fairly good.
Ford came out with a flat tube 3 row in 26 if I remember correctly which were fairly good. Some were changed with the round tube with some modifications.
Either way most radiators have to be changed out eventually for a recore or a new one. If yours is an old one that may be your problem. I’ve been there and spent time and money on old originals that “looked good” only to find out why they were sale to begin with.
A new one worked wonders and I can drive on a hot day with no issues and it seems like it’s a different car with the new radiator.
Other issues can cause overheating problems also. A backwards head gasket will cause it. If all else fails the radiator most likely is the problem.

[John Codman]

My '27 had what I believe was the original round-tube radiator and would overheat in 15 minutes regardless of the outside temperature or whether it was idling or going 35 mph. I went over the entire cooling system including pulling the head to check the cooling passages in the block. I then bought a Berg's flat-tube radiator and now you cannot make my T overheat. 170 (actual measurement) is as hot as the coolant ever gets here in 90+ sunny Florida.

[TXGOAT2]

A Model T with a clean water jacket and clean radiator and a good head gasket seal will not overheat under any ordinary circumstances. A 50-50 mix of water and ethylene gycol anti freeze will improve the system's performance and keep it in good condition. Properly cleaning out century-old water jackets has been discussed elsewhere on this website. Many century-old radiators will not stand a good cleaning, and may not perform well even if clean. Investing in a new radiator designed for use on a stock Model T is good advice. Don't lose the benefit of a new or repaired radiator by failing to make sure that the engine water jacket, both block and cylinder head, is as clean as possible BEFORE installing the new or cleaned radiator. Getting the water jacket clean will probably require flushing and using improvised tools such as probes, wire, rods, etc to dig dirt and scale out of the various recesses in the head and jacket. Using a high quality head gasket and installing it properly and retorquing it as recommended is a must. Gasket surfaces on the block and head must be in good condition. Head bolts and the holes they thread into must be completely clean. New head bolts are probably a good idea. Make sure the bolts are of the correct length for the engine you have.

[tiredfarmer]

I must be a dumb bunny, because 11 years ago I bought a new radiator for my 26 touring. I didn't know about round tube and flat tube. I ordered the radiator from Obsolete Ford Parts and it is a round tube. I have been running it all this time with no problems, if fact I drove her in a parade last Saturday in 95 degree heat and she didn't overheat. Boy at times it's good to be dumb.

[bobt]

I posted this before and did not get any comments. I asked Jonah to drive the car for some distance, stop, get out and leave the engine running, open the left side hood and feel the metal pipe that returns the water from the bottom of the radiator to the side of the engine block. It should be very warm but not so hot that you can't keep your hand on it for some length of time. I own two T's, a 1915 and a 1926. I can hold the above mentioned pipe far a long period of time. Both of my T's have flat tube radiators and both will "gurgle" after shut down on a long ride on a very hot day. Both of my T's water level cold is ABOUT 2-3 inches down when you take the cap off. If you top it off it will spit it out the overflow pipe on the first ride. I live in Virginia and for the past two weeks it's been hotter than fish grease here. I drive my T's almost every day in town in stop and go traffic. I do not run water pumps or thermostats. bobt

[Jonah D'Avella]

Ok, the bottom pipe is almost always to hot to hold at around 150 or 170. It just empties itself within 10 miles of easyish driving in 80 degree weather

[Steve Jelf]

I didn't know about round tube and flat tube. I ordered the radiator from Obsolete Ford Parts and it is a round tube. I have been running it all this time with no problems...

I believe the common wisdom that flat tubes cool better than round tubes. But in most driving conditions round tubes are adequate, and it's in really hot weather that the more efficient flat tubes have the advantage. That's my theory/opinion, not based on empirical testing, so it could be baloney.

[TXGOAT2]

The flat tubes perform better and would likely allow putting more tubes in the same size radiator while maintaining air flow space. In a flat tube, more of the volume of water in the tube is kept close to the tube wall, which enhances heat transfer. A round tube might be less prone to clogging, but they will clog up nicely if abused.

[TXGOAT2]

Assuming your water is around 212F at the water outlet on the cylinder head, 150 to 170 F at the return pipe might be about normal under typical summer conditions. Do you have a water pump on the car? It's possible that your radiator is OK, and that your car boils water back in the water jacket or head because of rust and scale there? Clogging and debris in the block and head can allow hot spots to develop around the exhaust valve seats and ports, which can cause steam pockets to form. These pockets will tend to force water out of the system via the overflow pipe. It's possible for the engine to overheat while the radiator stays almost cool. A leaking head gasket can cause very similar symptoms.

[TRDxB2]

FROM The BRASSWORKS Site they have 3 "hi styles" https://thebrassworks.net/collections/1 ... 7-model-ts
The "hi style" or tall radiator core measures 18-3/8". This radiator is intended as a drop in replacement for the 1924-1927 Ford Model T and TT. It is set-up for the OE engine in its production year.
-The round tube is the OE design and cools better due to (1) being clean of scale sediment and oil, (2) tube wall thickness and copper not brass. It is a more authentic looking radiator
- If you are building a speedster or a car that will be used in parades on 100-degree days, we recommend our more efficient flat-tube core. The elongated "flat" tube core design. With 2.93xs the surface area of the OE tube shape it drops eh engine temperature
-If you are building a speedster or a car that will be used in parades on 100-degree days, we recommend our more efficient flat-tube core. The elongated "flat" tube core design. With 2.93xs the surface area of the OE tube shape it drops the engine temperature

[Craig Leach]

Hi Richard,
With the high cost of radiators this is a good topic even if no one will address it. I run a International scout radiator in my speedster because 15 years ago I thought model T radiators where to expensive. I made the mount & had a radiator shop move the inlet & outlets. Still using that radiator. Some things to keep in mind the modern radiators do not have as large of tanks as the T radiators have so there is a reduction in coolant capacity. I run a water pump for that reson but have never tried it with out one. Thought was that with the reduced capacity and small flat tubes would not thermosiphon well enough.
It looks like you have a 1926 so that may be a advantage. There are several MFGs. that sell a aluminum radiator a 1932 ford with a chopped shell for a SBF in 3 & 4 core that is very close in size, that have the outlets in the correct place with a bracket for the rod. The fill is in the back of the tank so a fill neck will need to be added. A curved hose will be needed for the outlet. I have seen them advertised as low as $150 + shipping. If you are not concerned about originality it could be a good solution to the high cost of T radiators. There are some radiator shops that will install a moder core in your radiator but the last one I had done was $400 and you can tell it's not original and you still have 100 year old tanks that crack from time to time.
If you end up going this route I for one would like to hear how it worked out.
Good Luck.
Craig.

[ModelT46]

My comments here do not add anything to this discussion, I am just commenting. 10 years ago I replaced the radiaotr with a correct style radiator for a 1910. I asked for a round tube, because that is what is correct. A round tube will cool just fine and looks "cool".
In about 1975 Tiny Larson over hauled the block. It was boilded out and is clean. The head is the original 1910 low head. The engine is an original open value (May 1910). The engine runs cool all the time. I have owned my 10 for 74 years and while, the rear end is from a 1915, the car looks nice. I do have an corectrearend and drive shaft for the car and some day some one will install it.

[John kuehn]

I also think the flat tube radiators in the long run cool a little better than the round tube. It seems from the Model T Ford encyclopedia information that Ford tried the flat tube radiators in late 25 and for a while into 26 than went back to the round tube style. I have one of those Ford flat tube radiators I bought that came off a 26 sedan. I bought it from the owner who bought a new radiator for his car. I used it for a while and it kept having seam leaks. I finally decided to buy a new one. For me that was the thing to do and after going to swap meets, patching up and then buying a supposedly good one twice. That was the last straw. The Bergs radiator I bought works just fine. I have never got it to gurgle. I keep the water level about 2 inches down. I’m happy.

[dunoon]

Well, I received my new aluminum radiator today but, before I even open the box, I'm going to take off the head tomorrow and check the block for scale, the head was boiled out and checked for flatness 2 years ago along with having the radiator rodded out, the radiator shop said it was pretty clean. But I never made an in-depth look into the block. I'll also check that I have the head gasket on properly and I'll refill the radiator with distilled water and water wetter. I checked my motometer today in boiling water it boils just below the top of the window/view-port. I also checked and found that water boils at my altitude at 209.7 deg F. Wish me luck

[TXGOAT2]

"Green" antifreeze at a 50-50 mix with clean water will raise the boiling point several degrees, among other benefits.

[mtntee20]

Living in Denver, Colorado "The Mile High City", I agree with Pat. An antifreeze solution will change the boiling point. You must be near a mile high as the boiling point here is about 209* F.

Good Luck,

[paddy1998]

When I stop and shut it down you can hear the water boiling. I bought this 26 coupe in 1962 when I was 15, I drove it constantly till 1965. I don't ever remember it overheating, except when I was in a parade. I don't think adding a water pump would make much of a difference. This car is not intended to be a show-car, just a go car.

This seems like a solution in search of a problem. Some gurgling after you shut down is fine; that isn't boiling, it's circulating.

If it's boiling over (steam shooting out of the overflow) that's a different story, but that doesn't sound like what you have.

[dunoon]

I've have had steam coming out the overflow tube sometimes and sometimes just gurgling. I checked on google the boiling point at 1500 ft alt.the formula said 109.8.