When we run out of ethanol

[Been Here Before]

When we run out of ethanol

Whilst looking through past issues of the AACA monthly publication, I came across an article that may be familiar with some in the group.

A wood fired Model T. The article appeared in 1958 and was originally published in an English Publication Model Engineer Magazine.

Model Engineer Magazine was first published (in the United Kingdom) to support the hobby of model engineering in 1898 by Percival Marshall, who was to remain its editor for over 50 years. The magazine addressed the emergence of a new hobby — the construction of models (often working) and experimental engineering, largely in metal. It transcended class barriers, appealing to professional engineers, jobbing machinists and anyone interested in making working mechanisms.

[TXGOAT2]

Wood gasification has been done off and on for a long time. It's not very practical. Today, the EPA would probably come after you.

[speedytinc]

Wood gasification has been done off and on for a long time. It's not very practical. Today, the EPA would probably come after you.

We are a resilient people with a lot of ingenuity.
Someone will come up with a way to power our vehicles on EPA inspectors.

[TXGOAT2]

A device that would render bureaucrats into fuel would be a blessing indeed.

[MichaelPawelek]

My father was in Japan shortly after WWII and said he saw a lot of that going on with really small motored vehicles. People will become creative when it comes to survival.

[Norman Kling]

This is a problem for another generation. They won't do away with new gas cars here in California until 2035. By then it is possible that the date will be extended or cancelled. The politics have a lot to do with it, and things are getting so bad now that I would not be surprised if we have a conservative turnover by then. (It is interesting that Conservative and Conservationist are opposites! Progress and Progressive are also opposites!)
Also even though new gas cars will no longer be sold, there will still be many left for a few more years. In my opinion, there is a shortage of electricity. Without burning fossel fuels, there is not enough solar or wind to provide enough electricity. There is also a fire danger with the batteries to back up in times of low sun or wind. with hydroelectricity shortness of water is a problem. also if there is a quick evacuation required and power outages at the same time, there will be a lot of traffic congestion caused by dead batteries. So sometimes the great brains are not as great as they would want you to think.
Anyway, by 2035, if I am still here I will be 99 years old and probably not driving a Model T anymore and most younger people are not interested. So I would expect that most of the better preserved T's will be in museums and will not need fuel anyway.
Norm

[John Codman]

The original post is titled "When we run out of Ethanol," not When we run out of gasoline. When we run out of Ethanol we will go back to normal gasoline and get slightly better fuel economy as a result.

[TWrenn]

As long as there's corn, there will be erhanol.

[TRDxB2]

The advertisements about EV vehicle capabilities are very much inflated. So it will take time. I just referenced the EV Ford F-150 because of the ads most have seen already. I do think that that they have their place Today - but not for everyone. I think they are a good fit for a contractor working locally. But not to go over the hills and through the woods to Grandma's house
So putting things in the proper context
According to the EIA, in 2017, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. residential home customer was 10,399 kilowatt hours (kWh), an average of 867 kWh per month. That means the average household electricity consumption kWh per day is 28.9 kWh https://electricityplans.com/kwh-kilowa ... can-power/ So its true BUT there are additional costs involved - a "switch" to disconnect from the grid & youu need to be fully charged - then during the 3 days of power outages where do you do to get recharged since the area is out or power. After 3 days your out.

Big Blue is watching - if you don't use it then many of the energy driving functions will not work.

The "external environment" means if you need to turn on the heater or air conditioning you mileage is diminished.
https://exchange.aaa.com/automotive/aut ... cle-range/
Test by AAA. "The window sticker lists an MPGe (miles-per-gallon equivalent) of 129 city driving miles... All of the vehicles evaluated demonstrated reduced driving range in hot and cold climates; the average EV battery range in AAA’s test was 105 miles at 75 degrees Fahrenheit, but dropped to 43 miles when the temperature was 20 degrees Fahrenheit.

Charging facts -
So if you upgrade to the charging option in your home its an additional cost - and if done properly a permit to do it. The 120/240 volt 32 amp option requires a 40 amp circuit - not in everyone's garage - likely in the laundry room.

Charging station realities
This link put charge time to miles It also talkes about installation and charging station level purchaes and the cost of additional connectors you would need to use "public" fast charging stations https://www.forbes.com/wheels/advice/ev ... ng-levels/
Level 1 charging uses a common 120-volt household outlet. Every electric vehicle or plug-in hybrid can be charged on Level 1 by plugging the charging equipment into a regular wall outlet. Level 1 is the slowest way to charge an EV. It adds between 3 and 5 miles of range per hour. The 120/240 volt 32 amp option requires a 40 amp circuit - not in everyone's garage - likely in the laundry room.
Level 2 charging is the most commonly used level for daily EV charging. Level 2 charging equipment can be installed at home, at the workplace, as well as in public locations like shopping plazas, train stations and other destinations. Level 2 charging can replenish between 12 and 80 miles of range per hour, depending on the power output of the Level 2 charger, and the vehicle’s maximum charge rate. Level 2 chargers can deliver up to 80 amps of power. But that requires a 100-amp 208-240V dedicated circuit and a heavy, costly supply line from the breaker box.
Level 3 charging is the fastest type of charging available and can recharge an EV at a rate of 3 to 20 miles of range per minute. Unlike Level 1 and Level 2 charging that uses alternating current (AC), Level 3 charging uses direct current (DC). The voltage is also much higher than Level 1 & 2 charging, which is why you don’t see level 3 chargers installed at home. Very few residential locations have the high-voltage supply that is required for level 3 charging. Level 3 Charging: 400-Volt to 900-Volt system

[TXGOAT2]

When they get the new electricity wells drilled and on line, we'll all have free stuff and all.

[TXGOAT2]

Actually, we need to put a huge copper grid in the Atlantic just offshore and a huge zinc grid off the Pacific coast and then we'll just plug right into the ground for free power! Everyone will walk around barefoot and get a nice buzz! We'll make the cable companies pay for it all!

[Dan Hatch]

Friend of mine is into wood gasification. If fact he has run his wood powered pickup at Bonneville Speed week and holds the land speed record for wood fuel vehicles.
He has one he drives almost every day.
He drove his truck to Bonneville than raced it and drove home.
It does have to start on gasoline then change to
wood gasification. Dan

[t-time]

My friend Bill's gasifier model T.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Krp6kgCiV7c

[Norman Kling]

I personally, think the best compromise would be a type hybrid car which would run on electricity but could be switched to gasoline when the battery goes dead. It would also be set up where the brakes would run generators to charge the battery every time the car is slowed down or goes down hill. And maybe even have solar collectors on top of the car to help charge the battery. Another possibility would be to have conductors imbedded in the roads to run the car by induction as you drive along. Of course, with that system one would need to drive on a pay per mile basis.
Norm

[TXGOAT2]

There are some practical hybrid vehicles available today with regenerative braking. I don't think you can carry enough solar collecters to be of much use on a typical motor vehicle. I believe that an IC engine of modest size and a battery bank of modest size can be interfaced to give good performance, low emissions, and more than ample power in a full size passenger vehicle. A truck would require a bigger engine and and battery to deal with loaded miles and higher road horsepower demand. What's needed for really good electric vehicles is a better battery/storage device. Adequate motors and control devices are available now. I'd like to see HVAC systems that were a lot less power-hungry, too, and a good way to capture a large portion of IC exhaust heat losses, perhaps some kind of thermocouple or very high pressure accumulator. A camless IC engine could be made very powerful and very efficient with instant, full control of valve action, and it could also be programmed to turn accumulator pressure into torque by adjusting the valve program. A camless engine could be set up to start without a starter motor and related equipment, and total control of the valve action and auxilliary electric motor power could reduce the need for complex transmission gearing, perhaps making it redundant.

[TXGOAT2]

Rewind your Model T magneto to serve as a motor-generator-magnetic brake and put a couple of big batteries in the back... build a solid state controller to manage power into and out of the batteries ... Get big torque for hills and a "free start" every time! Regular drivetrain remains intact and fully functional.

[Norman Kling]

I had a wonderful idea when I was very young. I would coast my wagon down a hill. I had to pull it up the hill. I thought it would be wonderful if you could pull a lever at the bottom of the hill to tilt it the other way so you could coast back. Unfortunately, no one has come up with a way to do that!

[TXGOAT2]

If it wasn't for Big Oil, kids could just get in the wagon and push on the front of the wagon bed with their feet and go flying down the sidewalk. But Old Man Getty had his secret Russian scientists change the flux ions of earth's magnetic poles to make that impossible and protect his huge profits!

[Allan]

Last night on a radio program, the motoring journalist mentioned a new small SUV coming from Mazda. It is primarily an electric vehicle, but has a an IC petrol motor as back-up. The interesting point was the back-up motor is a small rotary motor, with which Mazda has long experience. The reduced size of the rotary motor helps. That motor does not drive the car. It drives a generator to put charge into the batteries.

Allan from down under.

[TXGOAT2]

The little rotary could run at a constant speed at its most efficient speed and be very efficient and low emission. Rotaries had a reputation as being fuel inefficient, but computer controls and a constant speed/load operating environment would probably offset that. As I recall, they sounded like electric motors.

[John Codman]

As long as there's corn, there will be erhanol.

Actually, the Ethanol yield per acre is substantially better with Sugar Beets and also Sugar Cane then it is with corn. I took the question in the OP as hypothetical; I don't think that we will run out of Ethanol anytime soon.

[John Codman]

I agree with Pat on the hybrids. The bride's 2018 Chrysler Pacifica minivan was recalled for a minor repair; our service contract provides a loaner from the dealer. The dealer was no fool and loaned us a new hybrid Pacifica. It uses about half of the gasoline that our IC Pacifica does, but the battery is under the seats and the hybrid van does not have Chrysler's outstanding stow-and-go folding rear seats. Since that is why we bought the Pacifica in the first place, we will not be buying a new hybrid, but if the folding seats are not something that means much to you, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one.