Help! 1926/27 rear end, safty hubs, disk brakes, wire wheels

[Mark Gregush]

Using stock axles, we are running into a binding issue with the parking brakes when everything is pulled up tight.
The edge of the drums are going past the backing plate by 3/32 to 1/8 inch overhang, and cant be rotated without a lot of force.
I had to beveled edge of the lining along with reducing the thickness to even get drums/rotors on.
Woven type lining with the brass wires.
Besides adding shims to move the hubs etc out, is there anything else I should be looking for?
Has any one else run into this?
Or have people left the parking brakes out and just used one of those line locks?
The hubs are in good shape.
I have mounted 26/27 hubs on stock rear axles, and don't recall them going on to the point of the drum edge going past the backing plates like these. The instructions skip over the parking brakes anyway. It does talk about the 1/16" longer axles and using shims, but this amount of overhang seems excessive.

[speedytinc]

Make sure back side of shoes are clear also. (long shot) Diagnose for high spots. A lite coat of flat black on the drums & rotate. the wear spots will show.
Original, obviously worn axles? Longer axles or stretch the originals if all in spec. IMO avoid shims.
As far as disks. No positive experiences.

[Dan McEachern]

Move the gears in on the axles by widening the ring groove toward the inner end of the axle. Compensate by using a wider spacer between the axle ends. Either your axle or hub tapers are worn. As John said above- avoid shims, they are nothing but a source of problems down the road.

[Norman Kling]

Were these axles and hubs used in the past before you put on the disk brakes? Obviously, either the taper in the hubs or that on the axles is worn out. The hubs should not overhang the backing plates. I would recommend you pull the differential apart and replace the axle shafts with longer ones. If you remove the parking brake shoes, does anything inside scrape? If so, you need longer axles for sure. If those disk brakes have been welded onto existing hubs or drums those hubs might have been worn out.
Norm

[Mark Gregush]

Except for the hubs, these are the current parts sold by the dealers, not some homemade setup. Hubs came from two different sources. Didn't measure the tapers on the axles, but both look ok. Both drums hang over about the same amount. The drums are now going on too far and pinching the E brakes. This has been a fight from the start. The customer bought the rear end to me to rebuild which the owner before him was going to leave the engine in its normal place but mount the rear axle behind the cross member or extend the frame so the torque tube, with Volvo overdrive was about 10" longer. So have spent a lot of time getting that sorted out.
The rear end is back at his house where we were going to mount the disk brakes, hubs etc which is what I was doing yesterday when we ran into this issue. The instructions do talk about the longer axles or shims, but don't know how much a 1/16 longer axle will change things. ?
Really hate the idea of having to pull, change or modify axles at this point, besides my T is parked in the only space I have big enough to do this with its engine out, and his shop space is small too.
Thanks for the suggestions, not what I was hoping for but understandable.
From cool and wet Portland, Oregon!

[speedytinc]

Its been standard procedure to do an axle stretch of .080-.100" Been where you are to many times before. Wont use shims on a rebuild, No excuse for it. Never been sorry with a stretch. Large drums usually "need" less or dont always "need" the extra length. But small drums always need the stretch. Unless all NOS parts, there is narrowing from wear. If I am starting with a complete unit, I will note drum clearance. But its rare to not have to replace both axles. 1/16" isnt typically enough. The manufacture cant know how much wear these things have. Finding better hubs, if possible. Done that.
Some times, flipping the wheels around to the other side helps. In an economy bearing service I might do this with 1 thick shim, permission & warnings of its half e$$ nature to save a guy $$. Customer demand & I wash my hands.
I"m afraid your path is clear grasshopper.

[Mark Gregush]

"I"m afraid your path is clear grasshopper." LOL I just used the grasshopper on a Facebook post!

I am seeing a number of different paths; make the groove wider for the gear retaining clips and move the axles out, new axles that may still need work, stretching the axles he has, shims, leaving the shoes out and putting a line lock to lock brakes for parking (may or may not be able to properly center the rotors in the calipers) or realizing I just don't have the resources/contacts/tools for this type of work which has gone outside just rebuilding a T rear end.

As far as stretching goes, I am a bit worried about messing with the temper as I would guess a lot of heat would be involved (?). I have a lathe that I could check straightness after, but the press is miles away, and Tom does not have a plate or anything big enough at the shop to set V ways on to check there.
The engine that is going in front of this rear end, not your typical sedate engine, let's just say, it's on the way more power end and has been highly modified which is why the disk brakes/safety hubs. (No longer has a transmission brake) That part of this project, I am not getting involved in.
I sent the customer a link to this conversation, and hope he is reading it too.
SO! I/we have some thinking to do.
Mark

[speedytinc]

"I"m afraid your path is clear grasshopper." LOL I just used the grasshopper on a Facebook post!

I am seeing a number of different paths; make the groove wider for the gear retaining clips and move the axles out, new axles that may still need work, stretching the axles he has, shims, leaving the shoes out and putting a line lock to lock brakes for parking (may or may not be able to properly center the rotors in the calipers) or realizing I just don't have the resources/contacts/tools for this type of work which has gone outside just rebuilding a T rear end.

As far as stretching goes, I am a bit worried about messing with the temper as I would guess a lot of heat would be involved (?). I have a lathe that I could check straightness after, but the press is miles away, and Tom does not have a plate or anything big enough at the shop to set V ways on to check there.
The engine that is going in front of this rear end, not your typical sedate engine, let's just say, it's on the way more power end and has been highly modified which is why the disk brakes/safety hubs. (No longer has a transmission brake) That part of this project, I am not getting involved in.
I sent the customer a link to this conversation, and hope he is reading it too.
SO! I/we have some thinking to do.
Mark

Sorry for the confusion. Dan M explained stretching. It is the lengthening of the axle by widening the gear stop half rings groove.
No heating involved. This would be my clear path.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Move the gears in on the axles by widening the ring groove toward the inner end of the axle. Compensate by using a wider spacer between the axle ends. Either your axle or hub tapers are worn. As John said above- avoid shims, they are nothing but a source of problems down the road.

If it were me, I'd deepen the counterbores in the differential gears before I'd modify an axle shaft. I'm not suggesting that the axle mod is dangerous or anything like that, it just seems like a "cleaner" solution to me. Just my take on it "Six of one..." as they say. All kind of worthless though if this is just done to continue using worn out axles & hubs, if that's the real problem.

[speedytinc]

Move the gears in on the axles by widening the ring groove toward the inner end of the axle. Compensate by using a wider spacer between the axle ends. Either your axle or hub tapers are worn. As John said above- avoid shims, they are nothing but a source of problems down the road.

If it were me, I'd deepen the counterbores in the differential gears before I'd modify an axle shaft. I'm not suggesting that the axle mod is dangerous or anything like that, it just seems like a "cleaner" solution to me. Just my take on it "Six of one..." as they say. All kind of worthless though if this is just done to continue using worn out axles & hubs, if that's the real problem.

I agree with your thinking. Accomplishes the same thing. More difficult for no greater return? Modifying gears would require some fancier grinding equipment?. Not sure if carbide would cut it well. They are hard. I have trimmed triple gears with carbide. Sparks & squeals until hardened layer is cleared. No fun. Also means removing the gear completely. When I recut the groove, I only slide the gear off enough to cut.

P.S. Dont forget to trim any protruding gear key to clear roller bearing cage.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Move the gears in on the axles by widening the ring groove toward the inner end of the axle. Compensate by using a wider spacer between the axle ends. Either your axle or hub tapers are worn. As John said above- avoid shims, they are nothing but a source of problems down the road.

If it were me, I'd deepen the counterbores in the differential gears before I'd modify an axle shaft. I'm not suggesting that the axle mod is dangerous or anything like that, it just seems like a "cleaner" solution to me. Just my take on it "Six of one..." as they say. All kind of worthless though if this is just done to continue using worn out axles & hubs, if that's the real problem.

Also means removing the gear completely.

Not really. Just push the gear off until it overhangs the end of the axle enough to deepen the c'bore. I agree that it might be very tough to cut, especially with the interupted cut at the keyway.

[Mark Gregush]

Sorry I misunderstood stretching of the axle. I have read about stretching valve stems by peening, so that is what I was thinking. I just did not connect the dots between that word and what Scott said.
Thanks
Reading the post, I see a couple of ways to go now. As I said in an earlier post, the wire wheel hubs came from 2 different sources, so really can't see them both being worn the same, both setups going on about the same distance over the backing plates, with about the same amount of thread showing after being pulled up with shoes in place. But the shoes may not allow full seating of the hubs on the axle?
Now the axles, that would be different. I don't know the history on them, as the customer got them from someone in California. Before assembling the rear end, I did test fit the hubs on the axles, they seemed to fit ok but did not blue them when test fitting.
Guess our next step is going to be, remove the parking brake shoes and refit the hubs/drum/rotors and safety hubs to get a better picture of just how far they actually are going on. Then go from there.