Driving A Model T As Henry Ford Intended

[tbaghdadi]

I have not driven a Model T yet. I have a 1925 fordor I am getting back to restoring. I was wondering if I should wait to install a ruckstell and rocky mountain brakes so I can get the feel of how a Model T was driven off the showroom floor. This way I would get a better appreciation how they were driven and a better appreciation when I do get a ruckstell and rocky mountain brakes. Not having to spend around $3,000 in addition to the restore is also a plus. Would greatly appreciate your feedback.

Tarik

[TRDxB2]

Wait and think about it...
Do you really need a Ruckstell? Have you consider other gearing alternatives
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/70 ... 1506857114
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1450905121
Are you aware of the pro's & cons of Rock Mountain brakes?
Alternatives http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/41 ... 1393200452

[MichaelPawelek]

Do you have anyone locally with a Model T of standard gearing that would let you drive a bit to see how it feels? Maybe a local Model T club?

In your area are there a lot of steep hills/mountains or is it mostly level ground?

My area of Texas near the Gulf Coast is flat but I have occasionally driven in the Texas Hill Country with some extreme up and down roads. I use the Ruckstell there a lot but here at home only to cruise slowly through the neighborhood or for slow parades.

[tbaghdadi]

I will be attending my 1st MTFCA meeting this Friday. I will research other gearing alternatives and the pros and cons of rocky mountain brakes.

[Steve Jelf]

...the pros and cons of rocky mountain brakes.

The big con: If you're rolling backwards they don't work. When I install a Ruckstell it will accompanied by AC brakes.

[RGould1910]

IMHO, a Ruckstell or other underdrive unit is practically a necessity on an enclosed Model T. You can opt for a ten tooth pinion set up but then you are limiting your driving speed. Here in CA with all the traffic, you need all the speed you can safely muster.
Since you have a narrow brake drum, you should also invest in auxiliary brakes. If you have a late 25 with the wide brake drum you could get by with Henry trans and hand brakes. My advice might be different if you had a light bodied car.
If you don't mind slower driving, the 10 tooth pinion set is is an option.. You have better braking ability and more power

[Oldav8tor]

Tarik,
I'm sure others will disagree with me but if you want a car that keeps up with modern traffic you don't want a Model T. I will add that a Model T with standard steering, wheels and etc. does not feel comfortable driving at those speeds. In addition, should you have an accident at high speed the results could be tragic.

A Ruckstell is great in the mountains or when you want to creep along in a parade, but for the vast amount of driving it offers fewer benefits. I have a 10 tooth pinion in my '17 touring and it has handled everything I've encountered just fine, even carrying a heavy load. To be totally honest I should add that what I know of Ruckstells I've learned from others so let those with more experience speak to their value. I drive a mix of gravel and paved roads in flat or rolling country and find speeds of 25-35 to be most comfortable, but then I have an open car. Your experience will be different.

Due to a couple of incidents in hill country I chose to add disc brakes. I want to underscore what Steve said when he pointed out that Rocky Mountains don't work in reverse. Try this scenario....you're on a steep narrow road and your car stalls out.... other cars are following too closely behind you and your car starts to roll backwards...... almost happened to me. The best auxiliary brakes IMO are disc brakes, problem is that they're not "period." I chose safety over period authenticity.

My opinion - until you have put some miles in driving a Model T it is difficult to know what modifications make the most sense. Nothing takes the place of experience.

[Norman Kling]

I agree that on flat land you could do without a Ruckstell, however, it is great in driving down my gravel road and very excellent in parades. I can put it into Ruckstell in a parade and pull the parking lever into the neutral position. Then when I want to go forward, I just tap the low pedal and let it coast in neutral until I need to either brake or speed up again. I just run the engine at a fast idle fast enough it won't stall when I push the low pedal. It is also good in parking lots where I want to go slow but don't need to hold the low pedal down for long times. As for the brakes. It is good to have auxiliary brakes of some kind because any failure between the transmission and the rear wheels can put you into freewheeling. If you don't mind the look, many like the hydraulic rear brakes. Otherwise the Rocky mountain or AC brakes are good. It is also good if you have earlier than a 26, to use lined parking brake shoes. Then if you start to roll backward, you can either push hard on the pedal to engage the transmission brake or if the car is in freewheeling, pull back hard on the parking brake.
Norm

[speedytinc]

I have not driven a Model T yet. I have a 1925 fordor I am getting back to restoring. I was wondering if I should wait to install a ruckstell and rocky mountain brakes so I can get the feel of how a Model T was driven off the showroom floor. This way I would get a better appreciation how they were driven and a better appreciation when I do get a ruckstell and rocky mountain brakes. Not having to spend around $3,000 in addition to the restore is also a plus. Would greatly appreciate your feedback.

Tarik

Others answers about the virtues of RM's & a rux are clear, but, to answer your question. DUH, hell yes drive it now. Make sure you or an experienced person checks it out for function & safety. BRAKES & bands etc.
You need driving PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. You dont know that a T requires a whole different way to drive. Start by reading a how to. Its an art form. Must be mastered. To safely operate, a new muscle memory. Learn to drive slow & how to conserve your limited braking. Start in an empty lot. Do not head out to the hi way.

[Steve Jelf]

I agree with what John says about learning to drive, but I will add a little encouragement. Sometimes folks are intimidated by the prospect of learning to drive these cars which are like no other. Don't be. Many millions of people have done it, and I suspect you're smarter than a good many of them.

I should add that there are some pretty good online videos on how to drive a Model T.

[Dropacent]

I think it depends on where you are driving and the terrain. We have fair sized hills and dales here but have never, ever used my ruckstell while driving. I use it to get on and off a trailer and once to get out of a muddy spot at greenfield village one year. I had a very tired roadster years ago, that would have benefited from one, but a motor refresh is cheaper than a Ruckstell, and that would have been the way to go.
For my ruckstell install , I started with a NOs unit from an estate find, and they are a lot of work to assemble correctly. A lot of work. Jennifer , in Georgia just posted about that. I can imagine the effort rebuilding an old one. Had a good friend recently do one, very capable mechanic, and he had issues with new parts.
So, I think it depends on the use, the amount of driving, etc. I like accessories so love mine, but not really worth the effort it took. Just my opinion, of course.
If our are planning on driving a bunch, you may consider a 1926-7 rear axle, and forget the trouble of outside brakes, too. Just don’t tell original smith……….actually , check your build date, as the big rear axle was introduced in 1925
K.I.S.S. Is tattooed on the inside of my eyelids, but I sometimes forget!

[Norman Kling]

Where I live we have quite a few hills. There is a 6% grade leading to my town of Alpine. Most of the T's can pull the grade about 22 mph in high gear and if we don't need to stop going up, will go all the way in high. However on one of my 3 cars, the previous owner installed a 3-1 rear axle ratio with a Ruckstell. I find that it is almost impossible to start up any hill in low and then shift into high, but will go up just fine in Ruckstell. On the 6% grade I can pull at about 30 mph if I am the leader of the pack or driving alone. However, on tours, when the others are still in high, I have to shift down to Ruckstell or lug the engine. My car is a Roadster, so with your Sedan you if you do use Ruckstell leave the standard gear ratio in the ring and pinion.
Norm

[Scott_Conger]

Tarik

Norm makes an excellent point regarding heavy cars and Ruckstells!

Folks who gear them for a little more speed, often regret that decision when installed in heavy cars...keeping Ford gearing is definitely excellent advice for a Fordor

[tbaghdadi]

I greatly appreciate everyone's feedback. I will keep the Model T as is. Who knows, I may drive 5 miles on its maiden voyage and turn around and park it and order me some auxiliary brakes. I hope that is not going to be the case. I disassembled the T twenty years ago. Before that it never ran. I was happy today when I was able to turn the drive shaft by hand and both axles turned freely so there is hope for the rear axle. Now I need to decide if I should go with a 10 tooth or 11 tooth pinion. I have a new 10 tooth and a really nice 11 tooth. The extra ring gear I have looks new or is barely worn.

[speedytinc]

I greatly appreciate everyone's feedback. I will keep the Model T as is. Who knows, I may drive 5 miles on its maiden voyage and turn around and park it and order me some auxiliary brakes. I hope that is not going to be the case. I disassembled the T twenty years ago. Before that it never ran. I was happy today when I was able to turn the drive shaft by hand and both axles turned freely so there is hope for the rear axle. Now I need to decide if I should go with a 10 tooth or 11 tooth pinion. I have a new 10 tooth and a really nice 11 tooth. The extra ring gear I have looks new or is barely worn.

Another option, $$ saving. If you are leaning toward a rux. Save the big cost of RM brakes. Acquire a big drum rux complete preferred or new kit. Parking brakes are about as effective as RM's & can be pedal activated & coordinated.(see today's RM brake rants) $900+ saved!! Consider it!

An old, unknown rear end NEEDS to be rebuilt. A 10 T pinion would make a heavy, stock, 4 door pleasant to drive & stop.
Fast enough for the group touring I do.
A rux with an 11 T pinion in the same car.
Not even a 12 T without a serious added performance package would I consider.
One step @ a time. Have fun. Welcome to the affliction. Embrace the disease.

[tbaghdadi]

Fully agree that the rear end needs to be rebuilt. Just happy it's not locked up. Trying to be optimistic that the rebuild will be without any issue.

I do live in the western suburbs of Chicago so not too many hills

[Oldav8tor]

I started with a 11 tooth and switched to a 10,the difference is modest but a noticeable improvement. My understanding is that many T's sold in hilly country came from the dealer with a 10.

One big thing I like about my disc brakes is that they are hydraulic....no complex mechanical interfaces or need of constant adjustment. They just work. A few of things to be aware of regardless of which aux brake system you go with is that you're only braking the rears and the narrow tires on a T don't have much of a footprint. You can lock them up and skid and if your tire pressure is low (and you have clinchers) the casing can slip and drag the tube, ripping the valve stem off and leaving you with a flat tire.

No one has mentioned it but relying on the transmission brake has it's own problems. Excessive braking can cause the drum to overheat and cracks are not unheard of. I like having brakes that are totally independent of the transmission and drive train although I should point out that in the rare instance where the hydraulics fail (never heard of a case) pressing further down on the brake pedal will activate the tranny brake.

Tarik, you're starting off on an incredible journey....enjoy the ride!

[Henry K. Lee]

You really want more braking on the transmission drum with accessory brakes unless you are using safety hubs! Why? Those Hyatt bearings were not designed for a "Pull Over" like a roller bearing. You will wear out your bearing shells/sleeves in no time and have some other issues.

Just Sayin"

Hank

[tbaghdadi]

I am laughing. It seems where ever you try to save money on your T, there is another reason to spend money on it. I had to read up on what safety hubs were. I definitely see the benefit to having them. Add another $500 to the restore LOL. I really do not mind. Just need to plan out the expenses over time. Cannot afford to drop a lot of money at once. I will not sacrifice safety, reliability and the feel of driving a T. My intention is not to put all the bells and whistles on my T and make much more complex. The idea of going back to a more simpler time is comforting to me.

[Steve Jelf]

I do live in the western suburbs of Chicago so not too many hills.

In the relatively flat middle of the country bone stock is good enough. If you plan to venture east of Wheeling or west of Denver a Ruckstell with aux brakes is a very good idea.

[Henry K. Lee]

Tarik,

Keep it simple to start with. You can always add as you feel the car and you as one!

Rock On Man!

Hank