Opinions on my T search

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:45 pm

Well, the cut touring being no more for sale I still look at what's for sale not too far. There is this nice looking wood body truck. Actually fully registered and plated in my province so it would be a easy buy. Almost twice the price of the cut touring but condition is also very different. Almost TOO nice. Listed as a 1921. I don't know the serial nunber.

Tell me what you think and what would be a market value.

Thanks!

Screenshot_20211219-174309_Gallery.jpg

Screenshot_20211219-174303_Gallery.jpg

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:46 pm

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:47 pm

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:04 pm

Very nice looking vehicle and appears to have been put together with considerable care. It's a home made thing though, which will limit it's resale value. If that is of no concern, and you like how it looks and drives, then whatever you decide to pay is fine. As for value, that's for others to advise.

Post by **George House** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:17 pm

Clean as a whistle

I like the black felloes and green rims. Has a real rare nickel 1919 ignition switch. Like Scott said, it’s a put together vehicle but real nice cabinetry work so value is indeterminate. The rear window appears to be a frame from a TT enclosed cab. If acquired, you might consider expanding that rear window for safety sake.

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:20 pm

My questionnjng is "did Ford sold a lot of "chassis" that owners could built what they wanted ?
I also see it as a home made thing. But there seem to be a lot of them for sale.

MichaelPawelek · Post by **MichaelPawelek** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:22 pm

Model T’s come in so many configurations and levels of rebuild a set price is hard to determine. Unfortunately many older cars I have looked at over the years had tons of money spent on a beautiful exterior with little or nothing done to the engine and drive train. Shiny paint does not always equal a great driver.
All in all the final price is determined by how interested the seller wants/needs to sell the vehicle and how interested the buyer is in purchasing the vehicle. When you really see a older car that peaks your interest it is hard to not buy it without keeping your emotions in check.

P.S.-It really needs some side mirrors for safety…..

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:25 pm

A beginners T question but were the Phillips screws used in the Ts ? My guess is NO but I now nothing about it.
Anything old and American has flat blade screws from my experience.

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:30 pm

George House wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:17 pm
Clean as a whistle

Sure doesn't look a 100 years old. I way prefer the look of the cut touring. It's like a old house with perfect vanish straight and no wear steps.

Post by **George House** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:38 pm

Your guess is Right !

Post by **FundyTides** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:00 pm

You may find Robertson screws in Canadian built T's (and A's) but not Phillips

Post by **Humblej** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:40 pm

My advice for a first time model T buyer is to stay away from a TT, a bittsa/frankenstien built up from parts, and a touring cut down pickup.

The pictures you posted are of a bitsa car, made from a bit of this and a bit of that. Home made body and a mish mash of various years and parts.

The reason I recommend avoiding a TT ton truck, is that they are big and usually do not fit in a normal garage, and they were designed for a top speed of either 17 mph, or 25 mph depending on which rear end is in it. Sorry, dont know the kmh conversion, but it is painfully SLOW In any units of speed.

Learning to start, drive, and maintain a model T is a different experience than a conventional antique car. Doing it with a non-standard model T makes it harder and may put you off T's forever. A standard out of the box model T will have fewer variables to deal with. Nice model T's are inexpensive and plentiful. Take your time and pick out a good one. It is eady to fall in love and adopt any model T at first sight, so try to be objective and patient. Model T Fords are an old man tightwad skin flint hobby. The sad reality is they are all dying off and thier pride and joy's are flooding the market. Prices are falling and quality of available stock is rising. Get a good one, leave the TT's, Bitsa parts cars, and cut down tourings to the uninitated suckers. I say this as a prior or current owner of a TT, and a couple of bitsa model T's. I have been doing this for 50 years, so qualify as an old fart skin flint tight wad with one foot in the grave and one foot on a banana peel. My estate will be selling off my treasure someday at discount bargain basement prices too.

Post by **Chris Bamford** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:59 pm

Since you asked for opinions…

I think it’s ugly. Awkward proportions: bed too long and cab like a shipping crate. Wood finish like no T ever, modern fasteners. Did the builder really paint over the front license plate?

As opined above, often the shinier the finish the crappier the mechanicals. I’ve seen it too many times. No photos of the engine compartment is a red flag. If the seller is pitching ‘low miles’ there’s probably good reason it’s hardly been driven.

No way, in my opinion, is this thing twice the value of a running, complete cut-down pickup. Whoever buys it will find it a tough resale, and few people already in the hobby would give it a second glance.

I gather you’re just getting started with Ts. There’s lots of them out there and you would be well served to keep looking.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:17 pm

My thoughts echo those in the above post. I will add that the Timberlake does look to be well done, but the crude design does not do it justice.
Allan from down under.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:19 pm

:How does timberwork auto correct to Timberlake?
Allan from down under.

Post by **Harry Lillo** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:20 pm

Claude,
There are some very nice cars and trucks posted on this MTFCA website.
Many of these sellers are well know to our Model T community and likely much more knowledable than random sellers.
I have had cars shipped from the Atlantic States to the Rockies for reasonable prices, particularily if you are
willing to go over the border and import them yourself.
I just had a look through the cars listed and there are some very worthy candidates.
Support our Forum participants..........
Harry

Post by **Jerry VanOoteghem** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:29 pm

Humblej wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:40 pm
My advice for a first time model T buyer is to stay away from a TT, a bittsa/frankenstien built up from parts, and a touring cut down pickup.

The pictures you posted are of a bitsa car, made from a bit of this and a bit of that. Home made body and a mish mash of various years and parts.

The reason I recommend avoiding a TT ton truck, is that they are big and usually do not fit in a normal garage, and they were designed for a top speed of either 17 mph, or 25 mph depending on which rear end is in it. Sorry, dont know the kmh conversion, but it is painfully SLOW In any units of speed.

Learning to start, drive, and maintain a model T is a different experience than a conventional antique car. Doing it with a non-standard model T makes it harder and may put you off T's forever. A standard out of the box model T will have fewer variables to deal with. Nice model T's are inexpensive and plentiful. Take your time and pick out a good one. It is eady to fall in love and adopt any model T at first sight, so try to be objective and patient. Model T Fords are an old man tightwad skin flint hobby. The sad reality is they are all dying off and thier pride and joy's are flooding the market. Prices are falling and quality of available stock is rising. Get a good one, leave the TT's, Bitsa parts cars, and cut down tourings to the uninitated suckers. I say this as a prior or current owner of a TT, and a couple of bitsa model T's. I have been doing this for 50 years, so qualify as an old fart skin flint tight wad with one foot in the grave and one foot on a banana peel. My estate will be selling off my treasure someday at discount bargain basement prices too.

It's on a T chassis, not a TT.

Post by **Jerry VanOoteghem** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:30 pm

CJB wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:59 pm
Since you asked for opinions…

I think it’s ugly. Awkward proportions: bed too long and cab like a shipping crate. Wood finish like no T ever, modern fasteners. Did the builder really paint over the front license plate?

As opined above, often the shinier the finish the crappier the mechanicals. I’ve seen it too many times. No photos of the engine compartment is a red flag. If the seller is pitching ‘low miles’ there’s probably good reason it’s hardly been driven.

No way, in my opinion, is this thing twice the value of a running, complete cut-down pickup. Whoever buys it will find it a tough resale, and few people already in the hobby would give it a second glance.

I gather you’re just getting started with Ts. There’s lots of them out there and you would be well served to keep looking.

I totally agree.

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:11 pm

I like it and if you also do like it, go for it. If it runs as good as it looks, you might have less to spend than if you bought a rougher car and needed to do a lot of work on it. It could be a 22. Do you know whether it is a low radiator or a high radiator? A low radiato rwould be 22 and a high radiator would be 23-25. However the fenders are 26-27. The chassis looks like a car, not a TT. But it looks good just as is. The engine number could be any year. That car is not made of parts from several years with the wood work home made. You can not tell what year a car is by the engine number, because over the years many engines have been swapped. Sometimes the engine number is changed on the registration when the engine has been replaced. Other times the number is ground off and the original number is stamped on a block manufactured another year. If you buy it, don't worry about it. Just register the same year as it is currently registered.
Norm

Post by **John kuehn** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:36 pm

The first T you looked at would be the one I would have bought if I would have a choice between it and the T truck you just posted.
The first T looked more authentic to me than the Truck. The truck looks OK but in the long run you wouldn’t be happy with it. It does a variation of to many T parts for me. But that’s just and opinion.
A Touring or any other of the T cars that are out there for sale would be better and easier to drive around than this one.
This is my opinion of course and my preference.

Post by **Art M** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:14 pm

My wife would say, the cab looks like someone nailed a bunch of 2 by 4's and plywood together.

Phillips screws became commercially available in 1936. Keep in mind that electronic ignition became available in about 1975. But the screws are more visible and don't do anything a slotted screw won't do. Electronic ignition and alternators have some merit even though not correct.

The value of this truck is in the fenders, chassis etc.

Art Mirtes

Post by **DHort** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:41 pm

: 1920 model t.jpg (31.39 KiB) Viewed 5833 times

I bought this car because it looked better than the other one. First tour the engine seized. Basically paid for the car twice after the engine was rebuilt. Looks are not everything.

I like the looks of the TT, but do you want a truck that goes slow. Maybe you like trucks. Don't worry about what parts are correct if that is not important to you. Nothing wrong with a truck made of parts if you just want to have fun.

Your best bet is always to buy from someone in a club. Then people know some of the history of the car. I wish I had joined a club first, but Que Sera Sera.

#1 - it needs rear view mirrors.

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:54 pm

Thanks everybody, that is exactly the opinions I wanted.

Just to clarify about me, I'm new to T but not a newcomer in the car world. I've had WAY TOO MANY cars in my life. Of all types and brands. Worked on very old to very new cars from volkswagen to Ferrari and Lamborghini. I seriously don't see a T as a potential problem for me in ANY type of repairs.

But I don't know the MARKET and the hobby for them.
My main concern is not to buy something worthless for the market. If I ever want to resell I want something that people like and buy.

I like to tinker with my toys to bring them up to full operating condition. I've done a few ground up restorations but I'm now at a point where I don't want any PROJECTS anymore. That is why I want it complete and running.

Worn out seat, I don't care.
Top full of holes, I don't care
Bent fenders, I don't care
Peeled, cracķed, surface rust body, I don't care
Non working lights, I don't care
Some incorrect parts I don't care.
As long as it's assembled and running I'll be happy. It looks a 100 years old ! Great

I'm willing to go up to 10 grand IF IT'S NICE FOR ME but would like to spend less on a less clean car.
But not too far from being a correct car.

The cut touring I posted the pictures was VERY correct for me as a non educated T guy. Now with some explanation I can understand it's not the best one to buy. I Would be happy with it but would come time to sell I may learn the hard way.

I bought many cars, motorhomes and snomobiles from the states. Some shipped, some I went myself. So not a problem for me.

There is a 26 roadster pick up on Ebay and hemmings advertised by Gateway Classics in Florida for $13,000. I was almost ready to take the jump for this one and when I called it was sold. But they still advertise it ??????

I hope with all this info you understand I little more what I'm after and what I can do.

Thanks to everybody!

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:56 pm

I DON'T WANT a close body.

Ragtop or nothing.

Or a speedster.

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:02 pm

And BTW the cut touring I was ready to pay $8000 canadian so around $6200 US.

MichaelPawelek · Post by **MichaelPawelek** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:03 pm

Keep in mind that no matter what your experience is repairing older vehicles that the Model T has poured Babbitt bearings and that many do not have the tools or experience to pour and fit new bearings.

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:05 pm

Yes I allready know that and have allready looked at tools needed to do it. Newcomer in T but I do my homework. Reading and learning as fast as I can. I guess my 23 years as a heavy mechanic teacher has something to do with it

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:44 pm

I can testify in support of the statement that looks aren't everything. I bought a 1923 touring that had been "restored". You can guess why that's in quotes. Cosmetically it's a 20/20 car. Watching it pass by at 20 mph from twenty feet away it looks great. But park it and look it over and you find modern fasteners and paint with coarse sandpaper scratches showing through. But the guys who "restored" it only did the body (fairly well, not great), and ignored the mechanics. The carburetor had slept with the fishes and had holes rusted through the bowl. All the suspension bushings were worn clear through to the perches. The rear end locked up when the Babbitt thrust washers disintegrated. And on and on. That was about fourteen years ago, but it didn't take me fourteen years to learn that I had overpaid. This is why I always recommend that shoppers who don't have a lot of Model T experience take along somebody who does. You can't learn all the things to look for in just a few days, or just a few months. And while good pictures can tell you whether there are obvious red flags, they're no substitute for a personal inspection that includes a long test drive.

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:59 pm

I'm not in search of a good looking car at all. And believe me I won't be fooled by fresh paint. I DO expect problems of any kind when buying a old car. The quality of cars I'm after WILL have problems. I'm very aware of that.

Post by **Chris Bamford** » Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:41 am

Harry Lillo’s advice to comb the classifieds on this site is spot on.

You’re in Quebec — there is little need to be shopping at Florida dealer prices.

It’s better to buy from the guy who restored the car and/or has owned and driven it for some time… not the dealer who took it in on trade last week.

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:57 am

Gateway classics only has consingment. I wished someone here knew the truck owner maybe. I went through most of the ads here.
Still looking. I will find something. No hurry. Asking info to educate myself and to feel what the market is.

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:43 pm

I may have found something with Ashley at Lang parts. And at least they know wat they are talking about.
A 22-23 crossover touring.

Scott_Conger · Post by **Scott_Conger** » Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:42 pm

now 'yer talkin'

Post by **Humblej** » Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:37 pm

Bravo! Langs has had some very nice Model T's at a fair price.

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:22 pm

And only 6 hours from home

It's not ready to sell they just got it in.
They are putting in another engine with a coŕrect date serial number for it that they had in stock.
And will make it driveable with all correct paperwork.
Condition and look is exactly what I'm after.
I now hope everything will work so I can get it.

My last two purchase in the US got totally fu..ed up by the damn Covid.
The borders were now reopen and the stupid Covid is back in force and may again give me hard times

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:59 pm

The Langs always have several cars for sale at Hershey, and they're always reasonably priced.

david_dewey · Post by **david_dewey** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:43 am

Getting back to the question on Phillips head screws on a T. Nope! They weren't commercially available until 1934. Robertson (square head) screws were available in the 1920s and at one time they tried to get US Ford to use them, the Canadians already were. The thinking was to speed up production, the square head "holds" the driver centered, the slotted one requires care to keep it centered.

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:42 am

Yes the Robertson were the Best before torx but they look like carpenter screws on a car.
If Robertson had autorised the licensing it would have been different.

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:49 am

The green truck looks to me like a TT body on a T chassis. It looks rather odd because the wheelbase is too short. I believe it would look good on a TT chassis with the cab exterior painted.

Godabitibi · Post by **Godabitibi** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:01 am

I also think it look odd. The box is too long behind the wheels. It is also too nice for me. The only attractive side of it for me is it is very close to me and already plated in the province and ready to use.
For now I will stick to Lang's touring until it is ready to sell and decide then.

Post by **Jerry VanOoteghem** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:34 pm

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:49 am
The green truck looks to me like a TT body on a T chassis. It looks rather odd because the wheelbase is too short. I believe it would look good on a TT chassis with the cab exterior painted.

Yes, as I said earlier, it's not a TT. It isn't even a TT body. Just a made-up thing.

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:00 pm

One thing the green truck has going for it is room for the driver. Of course that contributes the the extended rear. With a heavy load too far back, I can imagine the thing with its nose in the air like a clown car.