Can anyone ID this car?
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- Posts: 4634
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- First Name: Norman
- Last Name: Kling
- Location: Alpine California
Re: Can anyone ID this car?
Norm
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- First Name: Wayne
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- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Can anyone ID this car?
Non-demountable wheels, wood felloe, round felloe. Non-demountable alone doesn't mean much. They were all Ford offered until 1919, but were available as an option until the end of production in 1927.
Non-demountable steel felloe wheels were used on SOME cars from around 1919 (maybe?) and may have been used as late as 1927 (or not?). There is still considerable contention about the details. Company records indicate they were intended to be used exclusively as the low cost option in the 1920s, however literally thousands of era photographs say that did not happen! Photos showing the steel felloe non-demountables do exist, and literally thousands of the wheels do still exist. However, era photos clearly show them as not being really common.
The round felloe non-demountable wheels gave way to the square felloe non-demountable wheels around 1918 or 1919 (both types were used for awhile). The square felloe non-demountable wheels were a bit cheaper to build.
The tail lamp can be seen well in the photo if one zooms in (nice detail in the photo!). The tail lamp is electric, which would not have been used by the factory until 1919. However, the tail lamp could have been changed (and likely was!)!
At a glance, I notice the top rear curtain has the three windows (lights), not the tombstone single used during the brass era and the earliest 1917s To add confusion, the top sockets appear to be the square style, which would be probably 1919 or later.
HOWEVER! Zooming in close, I can also see that the windshield clearly has the "even fold hinges" which fold the upper windshield frame down lower than did the later offset windshield hinges. THAT change was also made during 1917. Early 1917 open model Ts had the even fold hinges like 1915 and 1916 used. Later 1917 cars had the offset hinges which held the upper windshield frame higher when folded down for better protection of driver and passengers as well as directing airflow down into the passenger area if folded partway).
So, is the car a 1917 that had the tail lamp and top changed? Or a bit later car that the windshield was changed. Between the round felly wheels and the windshield? I lean toward a 1917 with later top and tail lamp. But it could go either way.
Non-demountable steel felloe wheels were used on SOME cars from around 1919 (maybe?) and may have been used as late as 1927 (or not?). There is still considerable contention about the details. Company records indicate they were intended to be used exclusively as the low cost option in the 1920s, however literally thousands of era photographs say that did not happen! Photos showing the steel felloe non-demountables do exist, and literally thousands of the wheels do still exist. However, era photos clearly show them as not being really common.
The round felloe non-demountable wheels gave way to the square felloe non-demountable wheels around 1918 or 1919 (both types were used for awhile). The square felloe non-demountable wheels were a bit cheaper to build.
The tail lamp can be seen well in the photo if one zooms in (nice detail in the photo!). The tail lamp is electric, which would not have been used by the factory until 1919. However, the tail lamp could have been changed (and likely was!)!
At a glance, I notice the top rear curtain has the three windows (lights), not the tombstone single used during the brass era and the earliest 1917s To add confusion, the top sockets appear to be the square style, which would be probably 1919 or later.
HOWEVER! Zooming in close, I can also see that the windshield clearly has the "even fold hinges" which fold the upper windshield frame down lower than did the later offset windshield hinges. THAT change was also made during 1917. Early 1917 open model Ts had the even fold hinges like 1915 and 1916 used. Later 1917 cars had the offset hinges which held the upper windshield frame higher when folded down for better protection of driver and passengers as well as directing airflow down into the passenger area if folded partway).
So, is the car a 1917 that had the tail lamp and top changed? Or a bit later car that the windshield was changed. Between the round felly wheels and the windshield? I lean toward a 1917 with later top and tail lamp. But it could go either way.
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- First Name: Christopher
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- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 runabout, T speedster
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Re: Can anyone ID this car?
I would agree with Wayne that the electric tail light was likely added later, as the car appears to have a coil box ignition switch, rather than a dashboard ignition switch.
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- First Name: Larry
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Re: Can anyone ID this car?
It looks like there might be a wooden dash insert.
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Re: Can anyone ID this car?
And an "accessory" coil box lock to boot !
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Re: Can anyone ID this car?
It has 1920 California plates.
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Re: Can anyone ID this car?
Look very carefully at the wheels. They look like de-mountables. The windshield also looks like it folds back into the car not to the front.
Norm
Norm
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Re: Can anyone ID this car?
I'm seeing wood fellow non-demountable wheels AND a '13 Touring was the last to fold the windshield outbound - '14 and later ALL folded inboard.
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Re: Can anyone ID this car?
1917 looks to have, as Wayne said, even hinges. Outside brakes and some type of horn on end of exhaust pipe, coil box mounted switch with one of the anti-theft locks. Fenders don't look flat, so guessing not 15 or 16.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
1925 Cut down pickup
1948 Ford F2 pickup

1925 Cut down pickup
1948 Ford F2 pickup
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Re: Can anyone ID this car?
The three rear window panel was used 1917 - 1922. The coil box appears to have the aftermarket Yale key lock that was patented in January 1912.
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Re: Can anyone ID this car?
I have a KW on our '14 Touring - the one in the photo has a "bright" face - could be a "Defender" lock as they were buffed aluminum.
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Re: Can anyone ID this car?
Crowned fenders began with 1917. Straight-up windshield ended with 1922. So 17-22 for sure.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring