Rear wheel REALLY stuck

[Steve Jelf]

I've never seen the like. The puller was as tight as I could get it, but it pulled off the hub leaving the wheel stuck solid. Probably wrecked the hub threads. I ran the nut on to ⅛" from the hub, put in the pin, and drove up to the cemetery where I drove repeatedly around lots of curves, both left and right. Still stuck. I drove fast coming home, probably 40 mph or more. Still stuck. I turned the nut around flush with the end of the axle, jacked the opposite wheel off the floor, and whacked the end of the axle hard several times with a BFH. Still stuck solid. Any ideas?

[speedytinc]

I suggest this since the hub is wasted & see you have nothing to lose. First I might repeat your efforts with a good & frequent Kroil spray.
If no joy, Very hot oxidizing flame on the hub, go quick driving whall hot. Be a little patient, it has to give in eventually.

[John kuehn]

I don’t know if it would make any difference but what about using a axle knock off nut. Others might call it something different
You said say you used an axle nut turned backwards to no avail. Would the deeper threaded knock off nut make any difference? Good luck.

[Jeff5015]

Hey Steve,

Have you tried a low heat, like from a hair drier with the hub puller on tight?

Jeff

[CudaMan]

Rather than a BFH, I use an air hammer with a flat end and the pressure dialed up over 100 psi.

Before you try again, chase the hub threads with your tool of choice to restore them as best you can.

In my experience, the puller is there to apply steady pressure to the turned-around nut on the end of the axle, no need to tighten it to the point of harming the hub threads. It's the BFH or air hammer that does most of the work. Good luck and keep us posted on how it goes!

[Scott_Conger]

Is the hub by any chance a new, steel hub? Just curious.

[TXGOAT2]

I've good ruined pullers trying to pull things off tapered shafts with just the force of the puller bolt. What usually works for me is to get the puller reasonabley tight, then whack the puller bolt head a sharp blow with a hammer. A 2 or 3 lb brass hammer is a good choice, if available. This usually works with the various pullers that have an extra tall wrench hex on the bolt, such as pitman arm pullers. I've had good luck pulling the bolt up tight, then smacking it with a hammer a couple of times, then tightening the bolt a little more. If you can get two hammers on opposite sides of the hub snout and hit it with both hammers at the same time, that will sometimes break a taper loose.

[Steve Jelf]

Is the hub by any chance a new, steel hub?

Nope. Original Ford part.

[Norman Kling]

Have you tried putting the puller on and tightening as tight as you can and then driving around starting and stopping as fast as you can and going around corners? If you can find one that will work, you might look for a puller which will fit through the spokes and grab the hub from the back side. With those, you can put more pressure than with the stock hub puller.
Norm

[Scott_Conger]

Pat has described the "correct" way to use the puller if the wheel fails to yield to an 12" wrench on the puller. Loading the joint with the puller and either using it as a "knocker" or driving with it loaded up (and the nut loosely reinstalled) is or was, the way to go. Simply applying longer levers means the hub threads will tear off with less sweat and effort (as has been found all too often on Model Ts).

At this point, I don't have any suggestions that result in a useable part when done. I asked about the steel hub, as the repro steel hubs are VERY prone to seizure...not so much the originals, though they can still be stubborn as you've discovered. The only time I saw one stuck as badly as yours appears to be was when some expert told the owner to smear some valve-grinding paste on the axle to lock it on. It was unusually good advice...it was not only locked on, it was all but welded in place.

[Steve Jelf]

Well, I tried putting the puller on, clamped really tight, and applying the air hammer. Still no go. I've got the nut back on and cotter pinned with a ⅛" gap. When the weather permits I'll do some serious country driving and see if that knocks it loose.

[Kevin Pharis]

I recently beat the snot out of my touring car rear hubs. New axles with new hubs, and I thought for sure I was goin to have to take the portable bandsaw to the axle tubes... again! I hammered until the axle threads mushroomed, and I hammered some more. I used the 1/2” impact wrench on the puller, then the acetylene torch and the impact wrench. Finally I gave up! I let it sit for a couple days under load, then decided I would try one more time. Both hubs came off while tightening up the puller with gentle torque...!?!

Tapered axles can make a fella question his sanity!!!!!

[TXGOAT2]

The valve grinding paste trick can be useful on loose taper joints. But it can make a joint permanent.

[Ken Buhler]

Try loosening the nut, tighten the puller with a lot of pressure, and drive it until it pops.

[George Mills]

Steve....

For what it is worth...I had one one time that seemed welded on...tried all of those tricks, still welded on...

I finally decided time was on my side...I jacked that wheel up...

I took a 3-jaw Buffalo puller and carefully added it so that the jaw tip just bit below the flanged out part of the hub. I wrapped it with twine as I didn't know about zip ties then...

I took it up real firm on the jack-bolt...sprayed it all with penetrating oil...

Every day as I walked past I'd whack the square head jack bolt with a BFH only once or twice...

My garage to the house had a screen door and one Saturday about a week to 10 days after I started this experiment I was eating lunch at the kitchen table and it sounded like a tree had fallen through my garage...

I jumped and ran over, my puller was on the floor...the hub had moved out enough that it was sitting on the axle shaft...

All done.....

[Original Smith]

In later years, Ford offered a conical shaped puller with a built in knocker. They work great. I heard a story of a guy who tried lapping the hub on his Model A. It couldn't be removed!

[Dropacent]

A lot of guys screamed when Henry Lee suggested a dab of anti seize. I’ve done that my whole life with never a regret. Just sayin!

[Dropacent]

Not slathered, just a small dab, and I always do it at the keyway. JMHO

[Jim Sims]

If using the knock off fuller, be sure to have the wheel being pulled sitting on the floor and the opposite wheel in the air I have used a large hammer also have had luck using a air hammer. the vibrations help.

[TXGOAT2]

If you can obtain dry ice, applying it to the hub to hyper-freeze it may loosen it. Handle dry ice with care. Heating the hub to 250 F or so and quenching it with cold water might also help.

[Loftfield]

My grandfather taught my dad who taught me: Don't force it, just get a bigger hammer!

[Steve Jelf]

Not slathered, just a small dab, and I always do it at the keyway.

Why only at the keyway? Why not a thin wipe all the way around? Would that be a problem if the nut is fully torqued?

[TXGOAT2]

Too much lube might allow forcing the hub on the taper too far. It might split at the keyway. Excess lube might also creep out and allow the hub to loosen in sevice. A dab along the keyway could help seal out air and moisture while still giving a mostly metal-to metal contact. You don't want a taper joint to become a rust joint.

[Dropacent]

I’m sure no expurt on it Steve. I always figured a small dab will creep where it can, and leave the tight fitting stuff tight fitting. I don’t think slathering it on is the answer, just wanted to make that clear. Anyway, it always worked for me. I’ve never had a wheel come off and pass me up, either, so don’t think it’s a dangerous thing to do.
Sound like with your beating, those axle threads are now in danger. It will not take much to wipe them out. ……….I did find out the hard way one time, that the axle thread knockers need to be seating as far as they will go. They will take out several threads very quickly if not. A reversed nut can do the same thing. That’s a painful lesson too.

[Dropacent]

In the ‘ forwhatitsworth’ department. This a copy of the original Ford axle nut wrench, the 5z tool. Joe Andulics made it for me a long time ago. Notice the length. And you KNOW the service guy stood on it to tighten the nut. If it broke or stripped the threads, it wasn’t a big deal because a new axle shaft was probably a buck and a half to have installed. way back then the torque value was “ just before it breaks”
I’ve been blessed with a lifetime supply of FoMoCo axle keys. Some people think you can take a new one out of the fancy ford script bag and use it. I’ve seen some horrendous ones over the years. You need to take the time to shape them right and stone them for a correct fit, which is certainly not hammered in. If memory serves, I believe you had one in a shaft you couldn’t get out. If you have an oversized key in the axle AND hub, you may be in for a bit more than just a hair dryer to get it off. I’m wishing success, whatever the problem.

[Steve Jelf]

Got it! After about 25 miles of driving with the nut loosened yesterday, over half of it on gravel roads that included some champion washboard, the hub was still stuck tight. So before I headed to town this afternoon I screwed on the puller as far as it would go, clamped it as tight as I could get it, and torqued the main screw with a giant wrench. All this with the nut out almost ⅛" and pinned. I whacked the puller on four sides, not the end, with the BFH, drove a couple of miles, stopped, applied more torque with the big wrench, and the thing popped! I pulled the pin, snugged up the nut, repinned, and finished my shopping trip. This evening after chow I removed the wheel, and now I'm ready to clean up the oily mess and deal with the leaking seals. Thanks to the Tims, here and by email, and everybody else who helped. This forum is a lifesaver.

[Allan]

Well done Steve. It had to break loose some time, just not when you wanted it to. Good thing you had time on your side.

Allan from down under

[bobt]

I am VERY happy for you. A problem like this can really mess with your mind. I would also like to add--If you don't know what a BFH is, you don't own a Model T. bobt

[It's Bill]

Steve, did you mess up the axle threads or mushroom the axle end in your struggle? Bill

[dykker5502]

Congratulation Steve!
And I learned something today - what BFH stands for! In the students workshop club at the technical university we called it "applying a Dirac's delta function"!

[Steve Jelf]

...did you mess up the axle threads or mushroom the axle end in your struggle?

Only slightly. That was an easy fix. In fact, even the hub threads were not hurt as badly as I thought. I'm still able to screw on the hubcap all the way.

[JTT3]

Michael I tapped the link on your post and it went to a site that said refer to BFH.