Wood Spokes (Hayes vs. Ford)

[JBog]

I understand there is a 1/32in difference between Ford wooden spokes and Hayes. Is that significant? There is a shortage of spokes for Hayes felloes, so could I use a standard Ford hickory spoke?

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I understand there is a 1/32in difference between Ford wooden spokes and Hayes. Is that significant?

Yup, it's significant. Use the spokes made for your wheels. I know, that's not an easy prospect right now. Consider maybe sending them to Stutzman's or similar.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I understand there is a 1/32in difference between Ford wooden spokes and Hayes. Is that significant?

Yup, it's significant. Use the spokes made for your wheels. I know, that's not an easy prospect right now. Consider maybe sending them to Stutzman's or similar.

I guess I'm assuming the Ford spokes are shorter than the Hayes. Is that the case, or are the Ford spokes longer? If longer, they can be shortened a bit perhaps. Also, are the tenons the same diameter?

[CudaMan]

The Ford spokes are indeed the shorter of the two by 1/32 inch.

Have you tried all of the vendors? What about Smith & Jones? or Birdhaven? or Chaffin's Garage?

[JBog]

The Ford spokes are indeed the shorter of the two by 1/32 inch.

Have you tried all of the vendors? What about Smith & Jones? or Birdhaven? or Chaffin's Garage?

Chaffin's doesn't have them as an item listed in their online catalog. I thought I had tried most places.

[cslandry]

You probably don't want to build your wheels with spacers, but you should be able to. You can't really see them once the wheel is built.

Albany County Fasteners C916L 1/32 thick 5/8 ID 1 OD stainless steel

https://www.albanycountyfasteners.com/1 ... shers.html

[JBog]

You probably don't want to build your wheels with spacers, but you should be able to. You can't really see them once the wheel is built.

Albany County Fasteners C916L 1/32 thick 5/8 ID 1 OD stainless steel

https://www.albanycountyfasteners.com/1 ... shers.html

That is a brilliant idea! Thank you!

[Mark Gregush]

I had to do that with one wheel I put together. 24 spokes all done the same. 21" wheels. One wheel compressed just fine the other I added spacers to get compression. The only thing I could think of was, one rim was expanded just enough the spokes were not tight. The washers I used; you can just see a space at the top.

[CudaMan]

Regarding washers, here are the ones that I cut a slot in to use as shims on already built wheels. They are 1/32 inch thick stainless steel. The ID is 1/2 inch and the OD matches the OD of the end of the spoke. If building a wheel with them, they could be put on the end of a spoke without having to cut a slot.

Update - I measured one and the washer ID is actually 5/8 inch, which is a good thing because it allows room for the fillet at the base of the spoke tenon.

[Allan]

Mark, have you had any of your slotted washers come out? How are they fitted? Being thin, I can't see them being driven in. Have you a spoke wedge to help with their installation.

Allan from down under.

[Allan]

I needed one more wheel for a rolling chassis I am working on. I had a loose spoke one which was otherwise sound. Spacers at the felloe end of the spokes were the solution I used, with little expectation of success. I have a set of dies with which I punched some discs from the sides of a 4 gallon fuel can, that being about what I considered thick enough. With a dremel cut off wheel, I cut two slots making a cross in the centre of each disc. A tapered punch opened up the slots to form a square hole, which was just large enough to drive the shim over the spoke tenon.

Being Canadian wheels, the double taper on the hub end allowed rebuilding the wheel without a press, each spoke being gently driven over the hub in turn. The bent up tangs on the shims made the spokes tight on the tenons and the shim made them tight on the felloe. It was tight! it runs as true as any of the others. So I sanded it down and painted it like the others. How well it stands up is yet to be known.

Allan from down under.

[CudaMan]

Allan, I typed up a long reply to your question, but it got lost somehow, so I'll try again.

I first installed shims on some of my spokes in 2013 as a temporary fix. So far, temporary has been nine years and counting.

None of the shims have moved since I first installed them. I used a spoke jack to push the metal felloe away from the end of the already-loose spoke, then slipped in the shim. I used a small punch and hammer to drive the shim home, then loosened and removed the spoke jack, leaving the shim jammed in tight.

I marked the felloe with a small white dot at the location of each shim so that I could keep an eye on them. So far, so good.

A full rebuild with new spokes is always the preferred, permanent solution. I'm just sharing my experience as requested.

I have a box of new Hayes spokes, all sealed and stained, along with a Regan wheel press ready to go to rebuild my wheels if my temporary shimmed spokes ever loosen up again.

[Allan]

Mark, the spoke jack is the key. That way they will be tight, without the need for driving in. It is amazing how temporary some fixes can be.

Allan from down under.

[Wayne Sheldon]

I have shimmed wheel spokes that way a few times for a quick fix. I made my own spoke jack out of a piece of pipe and a BIG bolt. The method has been used for over a century. It generally seems to work fairly well.
I usually end up taking a wheel apart. Usually I prefer to shim from the center out, using steel shims on the hub,

[Allan]

The trouble with shims around the hub is it opens up the gap between the spokes at the hub end, necessitating shims between the spokes. One wheel on Henrietta has a steel wedge driven in between two spokes to solve this problem. The wheel is tight but the repair looks ugly. It adds character to this car, reflecting its history.

Allan from down under.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Yes, it DOES require some sort of shimming between some of the spokes. I sometimes glue oak veneer on a few of the spokes.
I have a few times also bent sheet steel so that the steel goes between the hub and spoke and then up the side of the spoke. In that way, the steel shim between the spokes CANNOT slip out. A bit of effort, however makes a solid tight and long term shimming. Carefully trimmed it hardly shows.