question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
tdump
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by tdump » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:52 pm

I went over my T pickup today with the inspection sheet from Mtfca that the club handed out at last years Christmas party, and I found a couple things I want to ask about.
1, the hand brake lever mounting bolts. Best I can tell the inspection sheet wants to see cotter pins or lock washers.
I currently have nylon lock nuts. Same situation with the bolts holding the steering bracket to the chassis. Do I need to change to lock washers or cotter pins or are the nylon lock nuts suitable?
I discovered I will need to change the bolts that hold the oil pan ears to the chassis so unless I learn otherwise I will use lock washers there.
Oil pan bolts. I have no idea why i didn't put cotter pins or something on those bolts when I put it togther.But i didn't . They were and are still tight but I started putting lock washers on those bolts 1 by 1 today.Ran out of washers.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 2926
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:13 pm

I don't know about the nylon nuts, but lock washers on the oil pan are OK if it's not a show car. Use castle nuts and cotter pins on the pan arms and blocks. Those aren't supposed to be tight enough for lock washers.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Scott_Conger
Posts: 2716
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:31 pm

Mack

interestingly, the only place I have Nyloc Nuts is the brake quadrant, like you. They are mated with button head hex screws and look very much like rivets from the outside of the frame. Your Nyloc nuts are every bit as good as a lock washer or cottered castle nut. I like everything "correct" to the extent that it is reasonably possible, but the idea of reriveting these parts with the car assembled did not appeal to me in the slightest. Additionally, the safety sheet is "good practice" but by no means a mandate for use in club functions. If it were, 1/2 of the cars on any organized tour would have to stay on or in the trailer. And, there are always a very small number of cars on large tours which simply should not be driven, period, and yet they are. Those are the folks who will proclaim "No one's gonna tell me what to do, I've been drivin' these things for years this way!" Ask me sometime, what a T does right before a rear wheel falls off. I've watched it from behind and it will make you sick. You are to be commended for asking and trying to make things right.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


Topic author
tdump
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by tdump » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:05 am

Thanks for the help.
Due to the fact my pickup is a assembled vehical and was not a original,I have personaly felt of and worked over in some way every single peice on it.I started on it 16 years ago roughly and just got the rear fenders on it over the weekend and the floor boards around the pedals today. Close to done. But I don't want folks thinking,"well it is a bunch of junk parts thrown together,I better steer clear of him,". I want it to be safe and reliable as possiable if for no other reason than I want to enjoy driving it,not riding shot gun in a roll back and it on the back tossing around.
I will work on those ear bolts tommorow.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


Topic author
tdump
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by tdump » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:23 am

Note to self,never leave something for "later" You will regret it.I struggled for a good while putting lock washers on the oil pan bolts and finally got it.
once I get the pan ear bolts took care of I should have the safety sheet purty well covered except for the lock nuts on the brake control.Best I can remember I used a metric bolt there because it fit the hole tight instead of kinda loose like a 5/16ths bolt ,but that has been a LONG time for my feeble mind to be sure.
Steering is bolted to the chassis with lock washers.So that should be ok.
I went over the steering and such 3 times and best I can tell, I ddin't skimp nothing there.I remember very well thinking how hard it would be putting cotter pins on all those oil pan bolts and I just kept thinking, "do it later"
DON"T do that folks,DO it right then.! Don't wait till the parts are buried under the body and decide to go over it 1 last time!
:roll:
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 1492
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Contact:

Re: question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by DanTreace » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:09 am

The 'self-inspection' for safety with the Inspection Guidelines is great for pre-tour activity. Be sure to do all the check list.
Below is a copy of the first section.

As your eyes are looking it over, never hurts to have other eyes too ;) You can miss stuff!

Ball arm (pitman arm) to steering gear
connecting rod (drag link)
_____ Steering gear connecting rod (tie rod) to
yoke ball
_____ Grease in steering gear case and steering
gear bracket (also check gear post and
pinion gears for wear)
_____ Spindle bolts (king pins)
_____ Spindle connecting rod bolts




On a recent tour I parked next to this T that had adapters made to fit wire wheels to wood hubs, as I was casually looking over it, :shock: spied this event.
IMG_2219 (640x480).jpg
Told the owner, and he and friend got fast on the repair. :) :)
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Rich Bingham
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:23 am
First Name: Rich
Last Name: Bingham
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho

Re: question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by Rich Bingham » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:24 am

Dan, I reckon I'm a little blind, not sure exactly what the photo shows. An explanation of what we're looking at would be helpful. And, good on you for helping out !! We are our brothers' keepers !😇
"Get a horse !"

User avatar

CudaMan
Posts: 942
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:17 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Strange
Location: Hillsboro, MO
MTFCA Number: 30944
MTFCI Number: 23667
Board Member Since: 2013

Re: question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by CudaMan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:26 am

Sheared spindle bolt. :)
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)

User avatar

pdgriesse
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:59 am
First Name: Paul
Last Name: Griesse
Location: Granville Ohio
MTFCI Number: 19738

Re: question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by pdgriesse » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:52 am

Don`t confuse INSPECTION SHEET guidelines with JUDGING SHEET guidelines. Always OK to improve any items (like Nylock nuts) to assure good performance for driving/touring-----even if they might violate JUDGING SHEET guidelines........The INSPECTION SHEET guidelines have one purpose--to insure safety. The JUDGING SHEET guidelines to insure correctness! Paul

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 1492
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Contact:

Re: question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by DanTreace » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:48 pm

Rich

Yes, that was a sheared off spindle bolt, the upper part was gone. The spindle body held by just the lower part of the bolt.

Fix was to reverse twist out that threaded end, quite a chore, but success. Trip to auto parts store found a long shaft better grade bolt to make tour repair until new king pin bolt was replaced.
IMG_2217.JPG
Cause unknown. Could have been worn out and cracked kingpin, or loose bushing, or maybe? extra stress? on the spindle from the adapter plate used for mounting Model A wires, there isn't the outer hub support like that given by the design of the long nose Model T wire wheel front hub, fitting sung to the taper "Dixie" cup outer of the Model T wire wheel.
Attachments
ghj8 (640x480).jpg
ghj04 (2) (500x375).jpg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

User avatar

walber
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:55 pm
First Name: Walt
Last Name: Berdan
Location: Bellevue, WA
MTFCA Number: 16421

Re: question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by walber » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:28 pm

I couldn't see enough detail on the original post either until I 'clicked' on the photo and got a blown up view. Could then clearly see the top of the king pin was missing. Didn't know about clicking on the photo for a blow up until I did it by accident. Maybe others didn't know either.

I sure like this new Forum for speed and ease of use. Sure it's different and I am still learning but it seems far better for performance and ease than the old one which served us well for a long time.

User avatar

rnwilliams
Posts: 99
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:31 pm
First Name: Richard (Ricky)
Last Name: Williams
Location: Humboldt, TN
MTFCA Number: 28991
MTFCI Number: 23852
Contact:

Re: question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by rnwilliams » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:38 pm

With the Tennessee T's inc., as most other tours I have been on, we have started requiring a Safety Inspection Form to be filled out before every tour. It is a self examination of your car. We don't inspect your car for you or require that you have everything exactly correct before touring. We just require that you have inspected your car and it is ok to tour. The Safety Inspection Form must be filled out and Signed before leaving on each tour. This has two purposes. (1) is to make sure you feel like your car is safe to tour. (2) is to limit the liability of everyone involved in the planning and execution of the tour. It adds one layer of protection between tour participants and a lawyer. Touring 100 year old cars is dangerous at best. I'm all about promoting safety on our tours and at the same time limiting the liability of everyone involved. If you notice the MTFCA Safety Inspection form has recently been updated to correct a couple of errors in the front axle assembly. it's easier to understand now exactly where those cotter pins need to be.
Happy Touring
Richard Williams, Humboldt, TN
President, Tennessee T's inc.


Topic author
tdump
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by tdump » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:43 pm

Boy,I am glad to have those oil pan ear bolts done! DON"T put something together thinking,"Oh,I will improve on that later " FIX IT THEN"!
I dreaded it because my neck and left leg have been giving me a fit with pain but instead of crawling in and out from under it, I finally got my dad,84 years old,to help hoid a wrench and such. He is still amazed I ever got that pile of rusty "*#**$' to run,much less move so he is a bit more enthused about helping me a bit on it.

As far judgeing is concerned, it aint built to judge,it is built to wear the tires out due to frequant and random operation! :D
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


Topic author
tdump
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by tdump » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:56 pm

Gee wiz, while pilfering thru some stuff I found there was another PAGE to the inspection sheet. I meet all those requirements on that as far as the T is concerned mechanicaly.But it says a fire extingqusher and a first aid kit is supposed to be in the T. Un, is this just 1 of those cheapys with 10 bandaids and a couple tear packs of anitbiotic goo?
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 1492
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Contact:

Re: question about mtfca inspection sheet requirements

Post by DanTreace » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:32 pm

Mack

Just the typical First Aid pack, you can add what ever you feel necessary.

On one tour, lady driver came to our rescue. Her mom was a nurse and packed their kit with Benedril pad like thing, wet wipe style.

Was welcome as the best first aid for my co-pilot who got a bee sting in the front seat of the open car, windshield tilted for good weather. :oops:

Well you know, not only the Ford coils, but the bees too were buzzing that nice day :P size]
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic