Year ID - again

[Apis Mellifera]

In August I looked at a local Touring and made a post asking for help with the year. The title and engine date to 1924, but the car was determined to be a '17-'20. Here's my post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31121&p=239344#p239344 I only took two pictures at the time because the asking price was about twice what it was worth. I made a corresponding offer and went home.

After walking 18 miles around Hershey and striking out on a Touring body for my '22 project, I decided to follow up with the local car and ended up buying it for my original offer. It came with some new parts, spares, and new tires, so I feel pretty good about it and will soon list my project for what I have in it.

So, here are some more pictures to hopefully determine the actual year:

[Apis Mellifera]

I removed all the lights the previous owner added and the bumper and have started moving over the demountable wheels from the project.

[Apis Mellifera]

More pics. Can post more if necessary.

[Scott_Conger]

Welcome to the affliction

[Steve Jelf]

The battery carrier was introduced in 1919, as was the under-axle wishbone. That front spring clip ended in 1920. Based on those features this car is very likely a 1919 or a 1920. That's not 100% certain, of course, because in the course of a century many of these cars have acquired some "incorrect" parts. In this case, some see a 1917 top and I see a 1919 or later frame. This could very well be one of the many Model T's put together from parts without any attempt to stick to a particular year.

For registration purposes the current engine number will be the VIN, but I would call the model year of the car 1919.

[John kuehn]

From the photos the T really doesn’t look all that bad. Comments that folks have made will come from T owners that really don’t see completely eye to eye. Some are purists to the point of being impossible to even please themselves.
In reality most T owners have cars that are correct to about 90-95 %.

And have others have mentioned besides myself T’s from 17-22 can look almost identical and being 100 years old parts have been added here and there, replaced with later year parts and etc. to keep them going. Most casual observers wouldn’t know the difference anyway.
I would get it ‘more correct’ with what parts you have, get it going and drive it. If you want a T that’s ‘pure’ get this one going and become acquainted with Model T’s then find a another one later.

Use the T encycleopedia that’s on this website to learn the close difference in the low cowl years. It really does help in narrowing down the yearly differences.

[Allan]

I think Steve has pretty much nailed it. It has to be 1919 to be an electric motor car, but not much later. Nice find!

Allan from down under.

[speedytinc]

There is no dash. Was a non electric? Non demountables. Motor # & casting date? Its a Heinz, but thats OK. Pick a year & change parts to that year or enjoy as is. She looks just right to enjoy. No reason to get hung up on correctness. IMO.

[DHort]

No dash so I guess 1918 or 1919. 1920 has a dash. Looks like a good car. Have fun with it.

[TRDxB2]

There is no dash. Was a non electric? Non demountables. Motor # & casting date? Its a Heinz, but thats OK. Pick a year & change parts to that year or enjoy as is. She looks just right to enjoy. No reason to get hung up on correctness. IMO.

SOUND ADVISE. No reason to get hung up on correctness. Since the Title & engine # say its a 1924 you could change just a few economical things to make it a bit closer to that description OR make leave it 1917-1919 and not change the title.
If you do decide to change the front spring clip, I have an excellent later model I'd trade even up.

[Wayne Sheldon]

1919, starter equipped cars had a dash. Non starter cars did not. The windshield brackets also indicate it was a non starter car. In 1920, Ford began putting a dash in all cars whether they were getting a starter or not. All the details to me (with a few things that appear to have been changed later?) make it look like a 1919.
The engine likely got changed at some point, the starter and battery added, and someone not knowing model Ts dated it by the engine number.
I would call it a 1919! Whether you bother to change the year on the title or not should depend on your state, and how difficult they are to deal with. If the state will cooperate? I would change the year on the title, it could avoid issues in the future. However, if the state does not like to cooperate? I would leave it alone! Just call it a 1919, occasionally tell people the title has a bureaucratic error on it and was titled by the year of the replacement engine. That is what it is. And it is very common in this hobby!

[John kuehn]

One more thing to mention is looking closely at your picture of the battery area you can see that this frame has the forged steel running board brackets that were used until late 1920. Beginning in the 1921 calendar year u-channel running board brackets were used then on.

Your T seems to be a 1919 or 20 that’s more 19 because it has the non-starter dash. And again a starter was probably added to update the car. So essentially you have a 1919 with a 24 engine. Leave the title alone and have fun with your T! There is lots of them out there just like yours!

[George Mills]

I'd concur that feature wise, it is pretty much appears to be a '19. (Sort of tough to tell on those first gen 'black' cars...but a few items scream '19)

Looks to be an alternator in place, so it was an engine built with at least blank off plates.

The key would be the serial number...find it, write it down, look it up. It may surprise you and be the original engine and that would settle everything.

As to getting the title and the year of manufacture to match...lot's of luck! Depends on your State. Some will at least 'listen' if you have supporting paperwork showing an error...others simply say 'too bad, so sad, the old title says 19xx...and thats what all future titles need to be.

Generally looks like a nice find from the pictures! Good luck with it.

[Apis Mellifera]

Many thanks everyone. I have two Model Ts, two titles, one for a 1922 and one for a 1924. Neither title matches the engine in the cars. Unless there's a 1919 title out there somewhere, I plan to use the 1922 title on this car and put the 1924 title with the car I will sell soon. Given these details, I don't plan to kick the DMV beehive attempting to get the year changed. I was just curious what model year (the majority of) the parts indicated. I'm not touching a thing other than swapping over my demountable wheels and maybe washing it - if I have time.

[DHort]

Have you looked for a serial number on the body? Probably just inside the front passenger door.