Leaky Valve Advice needed

[colonelpowers]

Hello and Merry Christmas!

I hope everyone is doing well and ready for Christmas. I bought myself another T for my present. I have driven Ts for decades now and by some miracle I have never had to do a valve job on one until now. Time to learn. The old car was last on the road in 1984 and I did manage to get it started after all that time and drove it out to the trailer but it was missing horribly and smoking like a freight train; I suspected that it had a valve stuck. When I got it home I did a compression test and found that #3 had no compression, the intake value was open. I removed the valve cover and soaked the tappet with penetrating oil and it freed up and I hoped that the problem was fixed. Still no compression on that cylinder. The other three are right around 30 lbs. I guess that it is time to do a valve job.

I wanted you all to tell me what all I need to order before I call Snyder's tomorrow. I would hate to forget some little bit. I am guessing that I will need head and manifold gaskets, head bolts, a valve lapping tool and compound , some sort of spring compressor, new pins for the valves, new hoses. Anything else? Can you think of anything else that try before I tear into things?

You are always a blessing to me and I I thank you for your help.

God Bless,

Joshua A Powers

P.S. Be sure to remember Christ this Christmas. He has sure been good to us this past year (and all the previous years, too!)

[Farmer J]

I would measure the valve lash on that valve to make sure it’s fully seated before you take the head off. If it’s much more than .015 or .020 then maybe all you need to do is take the spark plug out and take a wooden dowel and tap down on the valve to make sure it’s all the way down.

[Art M]

Remove the engine and check everything. Surfacing the valve seats usually requires the engine removed
.
Art Mirtes

[Art M]

I have ground the seats with the engine in the car. It is possible with a wooden firewall. I am not sure about cars with a steel firewall
Art Mirtes

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Joshua,

There's probably going to be more to it than just lapping the valves. If it were only just needing a little lapping it wouldn't run as bad as it does.

Also, the 100% proper way to redo your seats does not involve lapping. It involves a pricey valve seat reamer and new, and/or reground valves. I believe most folks grind the new valves to ensure an accurate seat. The seat reamer leaves your valve seat with 3 distinct angles to ensure a narrow line of contact between seat and valve. All of this is "top notch".

Here's where I'll get in trouble... I have used a common, 45 degree seat reamer and lapped my reground valves until I got full, 360 degree contact. I set my lash at .012 and have driven many thousands of miles with that method. I've done the same for a few friends of mine as well with good results. If my engine were going to get a formal rebuild, I'd want the "top notch" method above, but for many years of good service, I've gone with the plain seat reamer, refaced valves & lapping. What you do, may depend on how much driving you intend to do.

I'll just add that if your engine still uses the original style 2 piece valves, they should definitely be replaced.

[TXGOAT2]

The intake valve is more likely sticking than not. Intake valves can burn, but they usually do not. You may have a sticking condition, or perhaps a weak valve spring. A valve can seat at cranking speeds, and fail to seat when the engine is running. Loose carbon under the valve is another possibility. The smoking may be due to stuck or gummed rings. I would put clean, lightweight, detergent oil (10W20 or 10W30) in the crankcase and clean fresh fuel in the car and check the malfunctioning valve for any indication of being sticky in the guide or having a weak spring or improper adjustment. I'd then run the engine, preferably out on the road, and see how it behaves after a few hours of run time. It may be due for major work, or it may surprise you and limber up and run well. Either way, you'll have a better opportunity to assess the condition of the entire car, and make an informed decision on how to proceed. Marvel Mystery Oil, used as directed, has often proved to be useful in cleaning up old engines that have been out of service for long periods of time. I would consider using MMO in both the fuel and the crankcase oil in this situation. **If your engine has 2-piece valves, you'll want to replace them all if it it proves necessary to pull the head.**

[colonelpowers]

Hello Everybody,

Thanks for writing back and giving your advise. I am going to try a little more on getting the valve down without tearing into things but I fear that I may have to pull the engine. If i pull it, I might just have it rebuilt while it is out. We live in a small town without anyone that I know of close by that is qualified to do a rebuild a T engine any more. Do you know of anyone within a reasonable distance from Southwest Virginia. We are near to Bristol, Va./Tenn.

If I will have to pull the engine anyway if it doesn't work, getting the valve to go down,I wonder how aggressive I could be in trying to drive it down from the top. I don't want to bend it. The car has good compression on every other cylinder and I can't help but think that if I can get this one contrary one freed up it may be okay.

Thanks and God Bless,

Joshua A Powers

[TXGOAT2]

Use patience. The cam will push the valve up. Once it is up, spray penetrating oil under the valve head, then move the engine until the valve should be seated. Tap the valve and observe whether it appears to move. Do this over and over a dozen times or so. Check valve clearance with lifter on base circle of cam. Check valve spring tension. With the valve cover off, you should be able to lift the valve with a screwdriver and see if it moves freely and if the spring has about the same tension as the others when their valves are seated. If the valve is a two-piece valve, it is possible the head is loose on the stem. Check to see if the valve is one piece or two piece. Check to be sure the valve spring keeper is in place.

[Scott_Conger]

nearly every stuck valve will eventually be freed...lots of soaking with penetrating oil from above and from the bottom over a number of days if needed (with the valve chamber cover off).

on valves that will not go back down with encouragement through the spark plug, I carefully and systematically "over lift" the valve by placing a penny or Nickle on the lifter and opening the valve farther than normal. This increases the spring tension significantly (in your favor) and over time will bring the valve down...what goes up must come down! So, now you know it will move! You're on your way toward it being fixed.

Once it has moved, through over-lifting, in many instances, simply running the car to get things heated up, will aid in loosening things up, too.

Finally, my opinion on whacking valves through the plug hole is that if it isn't moving (it's thoroughly stuck fast), don't hit it. A bent valve is all you'll gain. If you see movement, fine. But if no movement...quit.

[John.Zibell]

Since the car is new to you I would want to know if it has 2 piece valves or not. That would require head removal. Once the head is off you will have a clearer picture of what is going on. You may need to order new valves as well as gaskets and pins.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Since the car is new to you I would want to know if it has 2 piece valves or not. That would require head removal. Once the head is off you will have a clearer picture of what is going on. You may need to order new valves as well as gaskets and pins.

Does not require head removal. With the manifolds off, you can look into the ports to see the underside of the valves. I'm willing to bet you could also see enough of the valve head through the sparkplug hole to identify a 2 piece valve.

[ModelTMark]

Joshua,

If all else fails, please feel free to reach out to me, I'm a hop, skip, and a jump from your location in VA and have full service for all prewar Ford engines. With compression in the 30's for the other cylinders and smoke, you' may be in need of something more than a valve job on one cylinder. Message me if you'd like to talk further.

R/Mark

[colonelpowers]

Well, I tried the nickel idea and ultimately used 3 nickels and 2 quarters to raise the valve almost fully. It is currently still stuck but I can easily get under it with the pb blaster and really soak it. I am going to keep oiling it heavily for the next day or two. I don't know if it will actually make any practical difference but after temperatures down around 0 on Friday with -30 wind chill I am hoping that the metal will contract slightly and combined with the oil that I may be able to tap it on down.

You all are the best .

God Bless,

Joshua A Powers

[Scott_Conger]

Joshua

give it a few days and then start the car when the weather is more conducive to that. With the lubricant, extra tension, and heat you may find that it frees itself up

I find these exercises to be far more useful than simply ripping the head off at the get-go. The reason for this is that in so many cases, some threads in the block are iffy at best and pulling the head and replacing it often entails helicoils and annoyance. For me, it's far better to pull the head for more serious reasons which cannot otherwise be dealt with.

Hopefully, you'll be rewarded with success in the next few days...Good Luck!

[Farmer J]

You might also try using a pair of needle nose, vice grips and gripping the end of the valve stem, and then wiggling the vice grips side to side to slightly rotate the valve. That’s what I had to do on my R to unstick two of the valves when I bought it.

[Duey_C]

Jerry, that's the oldest trick in the book, still widely used by many and one of the quickest ways to free up a sticky/sluggish stem.
I'm glad to see that mentioned!
Doing what Jerry recommends also might free up some lighter crud on the valve and seat faces.
A good shot of MMO on the pistons might free the gum on the rings from the top while it sits.