Noise

[Flyingpiper59]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7le00zbemyp4y ... M.mov?dl=0

I can’t figure out this noise or where it is coming from…any ideas?
Thanks and Cheers

[RajoRacer]

Sounds sorta like "backlash" from the timing gears.

[Flyingpiper59]

And a lot of it!

[speedytinc]

And a lot of it!

What is the clearance between the gears? Stock iron is like .002"

Listening to your video requires signing up for the service. Nope.

[Norman Kling]

I thought I heard you say you ground the valves. It could be valve lash. Be sure to check those valves. Those with the two holes in the top look like they might be the old two piece valves. Sometimes a valve head breaks off that kind of valve and when the piston hits it causes damage to the engine.
Could also be a problem with the timing gears as someone else posted.
Norm

[Flyingpiper59]

Speedytinc…., That was my attempt at some humor….lol…. from all I can tell there’s no movement at the gears.

[JTT3]

Just from the proximity of the noise from your phone is your crank pulley loose or your pin inside the pulley. Possibly the lifters lifting off the lobes and springing back every full revolution there is a double clicking sound which makes me think it’s the lifters,cam & valves

[TXGOAT2]

I think I just found the source of an annoying, metallic buzzing sound. It would show up when going into a headwind, especially if the windshield was opened. I couldn't find anything loose. Today I was driving the car in a near calm, and opened the windshield. The buzzing showed up, though not as loud as with a headwind. I stopped and opened the hood and poked around, tapping on things looking for anything loose. I discovered that tapping on the floorboard near the pedals gave a metallic rattle. It seems the front upper floorboard was vibrating against the firewall lip that it rests on. Going into a headwind or opening the windshield changed the air pressure enough to try to lift the floorboard, making the buzzing rattle much worse. I stuffed some foam rubber between the floorboard board and the firewall and, so far, the buzz is gone.

[1925 Touring]

And a lot of it!

What is the clearance between the gears? Stock iron is like .002"

Listening to your video requires signing up for the service. Nope.

If you would like, you can download the video and watch it, then delete it after you watch it to save space. That works for me.

[speedytinc]

I would have, but, the server asks me to create an account.

[Flyingpiper59]

Is there another way to upload a video here without utilizing an app like dropbox?…..

[Chris Barker]

The clicks are heard every half-turn of the crank so it's likely that for each pair of valves there is a point where the loads from the springs down through the followers onto the lobes drive the camshaft across the gear backlash and cause a click. Not a problem unless the backlash is very large.

[ABoer]

All Model T's do that .
Toon

[Humblej]

I watched the video and agree with others, camshaft gear backlash. It will only get worse. I recommend a new steel crankshaft gear, a new bronze camshaft gear, and maybe a new generator gear too. Easier to do with the engine out of the car. You can leave it alone for awhile, it will start to sound like a bad rod knock, but engine will still run OK, obviously valve timing will be somewhat affected. Eventually it will sound like you are about to throw a rod and you cannot stand it anymore. Been there, done that.

ADDED:
Pull the spring pins in all the valves to take the load off the cam shaft, that should stop the backlash on the gears and if so the clicking will go away and confirming it is worn gears.

[TXGOAT2]

An oil pump would make the gears run quieter by loading the cam.

[Moxie26]

I would suggest that you remove the crank Pin and pulley, reinsert the PIN and then crank the engine. The holes in the crank pulley are probably enlarged from use, giving the pulley some leeway to make noise.

[Moxie26]

While you have the cylinder head off, you may want to consider replacing those two-piece valves, maybe replace all the valves...

[Billy Vrana]

Bent cam shaft, I had the same thing happen a couple years ago. Dont ask me how they can get bent. I pulled it out and centered it in the lathe, the center bearing was 8 thou out of round. Installed a new used cam and it was smooth after that

[speedytinc]

I would suggest that you remove the crank Pin and pulley, reinsert the PIN and then crank the engine. The holes in the crank pulley are probably enlarged from use, giving the pulley some leeway to make noise.

The pulley is a snug press fit. If it moves (Loose) thats it. You should not be able to turn it. You can test without removing it.
A loose pulley makes a tingy bell like noise when running.

[Moxie26]

Wow John, you just gave him the answer to his problem..... " A loose pulley makes a tingly bell like noise when running " .... Only now, he's turning the crank shaft by hand , with every quarter turn it's making a tingly bell like sound.

[speedytinc]

Wow John, you just gave him the answer to his problem..... " A loose pulley makes a tingly bell like noise when running " .... Only now, he's turning the crank shaft by hand , with every quarter turn it's making a tingly bell like sound.

If turning slowly by hand, I would be less likely to think its the pulley. That pulley would be obviously very loose. Very easy to check to rule out.

OP rulled out cam backlash? Thats a more likely culprit. Turning the crank slowly , you will feel & hear the backlash.
Even .006" gear clearance will make noise with a bronze gear while running. Depending on the alloy, an aluminum cam gear can require as much as .010". Makes for a bit of noise until the motor comes up to full heat & the aluminum expands.

A lot of back lash can cause a very loose pulley to ring as the hammering backlash transfers like a clapper to a bell.

[Moxie26]

Unless we're there in person to help this guy, I guess we're all guessing.... I tend to rule out the obvious and do the easy fix. Guess we won't know for the better until FlyingPiper responds.

[TXGOAT2]

OP asked for ideas.

[Flyingpiper59]

I’m doing some more sleuthing……. Again, I keep coming back to the fact that the engine was smooth running with zero noise before I shelled the number two rod bearing…. I’m afraid it’s going to be a long process of elimination…….since I intend to replace those two piece valves. The first thing I’m gonna do is get them ordered and pull the old valves……and confirm or eliminate valve train noise. I will definitely post updates as I go along…. blasted shame we all have to work for a living, lol…these breaks to head off to work are cramping my style. I did want to take the time to personally thank everybody who took the time to post your ideas….. whilst I am no stranger to complete engine rebuild’s, I’m learning from all your input that these T engines are in a league all of their own!…..thanks….cheers and Yours Aye!…….

[Norman Kling]

I had one with a loose pin holding on the front pulley. It would knock at a slow idle, but quiet when running faster. I put a kink in the pin to hold it in place. I put a little bit of shim between the pulley and the crankshaft. If this were so in your case, the crank pulls on that pin and you might not notice when cranking.
If you do have some slack in the gears, as you turn the crankshaft slowly with the crank, the spring tension on the valves could cause the camshaft to move just a little backward and you could get a noise also not so noticeable at running speed, but when turning slowly with the crank would be heard.
Norm

[TXGOAT2]

Try running without the fan and generator. You might check the timer for any sign of problems.

[RajoRacer]

Pretty sure it's camshaft & valve train related - I've run into the same scenario !

[Steve Jelf]

Is there another way to upload a video here without utilizing an app like dropbox?

Yes. Put it on YouTube then copy the URL and paste it here.

[Moxie26]

Just hit " continue to website " to view video.. bookmark and you can always refer back .

[Craig Leach]

Hi Edwin,
Just a thought remove the valves & check the guides & seats. If you order a set of std. valves & find out you need to ream the guides &
install over sized valves or you may end up with a set of valves you may never find a block to use them in. As far as the noise goes having
been a mechanic all my life I have found good listening equipment indispensable. Electronic stethoscopes help locate sounds much better
than most will imagine. The fact that you lost a rod bearing very well may have broken something else. Have you looked in the trans?
with the inspection cover off sound travel very easy. It almost sounds like something falling into something? One of the electronic
stethoscopes I have has a solid point that can be held against the block to help pin point where the sound is coming from. I'm thinking a
loose crank pulley sounds like when the engine is running that and may not be heard when forced against compression. Have you tried
jacking up a wheel & turning the engine over that way?
Craig.

[Chris Barker]

Replacing 2-piece valves is a good idea, but first, look down the oil filler (with a light) at the cam gear while someone else slowly turns the crank. I think you might see the gear 'jump' when it clicks. You might even be able to feel it with a finger on it.

[Moxie26]

Hey Flying Piper 59 ...... Any update on your noise problem?