Open Valve Gallery Engine

[Vrayfoster]

I will soon be bringing home a 1910 Touring car with an open valve gallery and have a few questions
1. How often (engine run time, or miles) do I need to oil the valve stems?
2. Would a tacky lube like a motorcycle chain oil be good to use?
3. Would it be best to use a high viscosity lube like a gear oil that would stay around a while?
4. Has anyone used Rislone Hyper Lube with ZDDP supplement in their oil without magneto issues?

[Scott_Conger]

Victor

if you're touring/driving all day, pretty much each gas fill up they need oiling with crank case oil and get a good wipedown of everything at the same time...your carb and intake are going to get messy...

if you seldom drive it, I'd wipe things down, and then oil prior to starting and then wipe things down afterwards (crankcase, intake, carb, but not valve springs)

these things are a bit of work and maintenance

[Vrayfoster]

Thanks for the reply. I should have added the car could be driven a lot. I had thought that the valve train would have needed lube about every 30 miles or so. Obviously I don't know much about open valve train engines as of yet.

[TXGOAT2]

I'd be inclined to oil the stems every time I took the car out, and every 50 miles or so on longer runs, using 10W30 motor oil or something like Micromist.

Gear oil, chain lube, etc, may not creep into the space between the valve guides and stems, and it will attract and hold dirt like nothing else. I'd want to try to keep dirt from accumulating in the valve chamber area.

Using Marvel Mystery oil in the gas tank as directed could help lubricate intake valve stems, and might be of some limited benefit to the exhaust valve stems.

I don't believe a Model T engine needs the ZDDP extreme pressure oil additives. A good 10W30 synthetic oil will do a fine job of lubricating the engine and transmission. I'd use a 5W30 in cooler weather, and I wouldn't hesitate to use a 0W20 in cold weather.

The valve stems will wear faster on an open type block than on a later, enclosed one. Keeping the valve assemblies as clean as is practical and well-oiled will minimize wear. A non-invasive modification consisting of some type of valve chamber cover would be a good idea.

[Dan McEachern]

Suggest you try putting a somewhat high dose of Marvel Mystery Oil in your fuel. That will do a lot to lube the valve stems.

[TXGOAT2]

It's worth noting that gasoline in the Model T era was not the highly-refined, solvent-laden, alcohol-adulterated substance mandated today.

It was generally of lower volatility and usually had some oil in it, and often as not, some sulfur. Gasoline today is free of sulfur and less volatile fractions, and both "dry" gasoline and ethanol are poor lubricants. A Model T with modern rings will allow less oil into the combustion chamber than was the norm with the plain, original type rings. Adding a suitable oil, like Marvel Oil, to the fuel tank will offset these problems to a degree, but I believe you'd still need to manually lubricate the valve stems frequently.

Marvel recommends adding 4 oz of MMO to 10 gallons of gasoline. In the case of an open valve Model T, you could probably double that with no ill effects.

[Russ T Fender]

My '10 has been driven a lot over the years and I must admit that for the first 500 miles following a complete rebuild I manually oiled the gallery before every run but I have never done that since as everything seems well lubricated by itself, maybe a little too well! I think the that back in the day when dirt roads were the norm most of the external oiling was done as much to clear off the dirt as it was to lubricate the valve train.

[speedytinc]

Recommendation for lubing open valve harleys is to add some 2 stroke oil for the valve stems.
For the intakes, I squirt a few drops on the open stem every day's ride or every 300 miles. Thats with 60 wt motor oil.

Just thinking out loud. Why not add felt packing washers, like the fuel line packing to each valve stem held up with some light springs?
A period closed valve train accessory to keep down excessive oil consumption thru worn guides. These parts would be fairly unnoticeable between the valve guide & spring retainer inside the valve spring.
Keep the felt wet with a heavy oil.(60 wt) This would keep the extra mess from the valve stem lubrication to a minimum. The lifters self lube from the crankcase. Not much to prevent excessive oil loss except for tight (to spec) lifter clearance. I suppose you could put small O rings in the lifter bosses(up high)
Maintains the magical appearance of the open valve train.

I wish I had your problem/concerns that come with operating a correctly motored, early T.

[Kerry]

Back in open valve times of the T, it would come with instructions on "How to run the Model T Ford" I don't see any mention of lubricating the valve train, maybe there is enough graphite in the cast iron to do the job? but does mention that intense heat on oil leaves deposit of carbon, maybe not such a good idea on the exhaust valves, even today on modern engines oil carbon can cause sticky valves.

[speedytinc]

Gasoline of the period was oily already.

[Scott_Conger]

Well, if you're going to drive it a lot, even though you paid a ton for that open valve engine, I'd be inclined to put a replacement engine in it and enjoy it.

You have a VERY expensive rear end in that thing which will eventually need some VERY expensive repairs and if it was mine, the rear end is the only part that I could bear to see wearing out or breaking. If you ever break a crankshaft and tear the rear main out of a $10,000 block, you will risk shedding some real tears.

I've advised a few friends to go to a more modern engine on cars that are driven extensively and have always rec'd a "thank you" from them. Their original engine(s) reside safely stored, able to be refit into the car in about 4 hours whenever they feel the need. No one has felt the need yet...

[Russ T Fender]

I have to agree with Scott. I used to drive the wheels off my '10 until I became a member of the two piece crank club. Fortunately there was no damage and I replaced the original crank with an EE but since then I am always thinking about a catastrophic repeat and as a result I am driving it less and less and missing it more and more. I have a late '14 block being prepped as a replacement so I can get back to enjoying my '10. I might add that I am also planning to replace my six rivet rear with a later one. I have already repaired radial cracks in it twice and I think the metal is just too fatigued to take much more stress.

[TXGOAT2]

60W would probably be good choice on Harley open valve motors, but I'd go with 30W or 20W on a Model T. A synthetic 30 W might work better on the Harley than 60 W conventional. You have two big problems with non-enclosed valves, one being keeping them lubricated and the other being dirt.

[RGould1910]

Lubricating valve guides on an open valve engine is unnecessary and can cause sticky valves. Keep clearances loose in the guides is good advice.

[TXGOAT2]

MMO! Faster accelleration, higher top speeds!

[Russ_Furstnow]

I have been reading this post with great interest, because the problem I have with my 1909 touring open valve engine is keeping the oil IN the engine. As I drive my car, the oil come out of the lifter guides and soaks the chassis with oil! After wiping down the red chassis a few times I decided to make a leather "bra" for the valve gallery. I made a black leather cover and a strap that goes around the block to hold the bra in place. I made a pouch on the inside of the bra to hold a feminine pad that soaks up the oil as I drive. The pad also oils the lifters as I drive. This bra has kept my valve lifters oiled and my chassis clean. The only downside is that I cannot see the lifters and valves working as the engine runs! Russ Furstnow PS: Before anyone comments, I have replaced the Holley 2 screw carburetor with the correct Kingston five-ball!!

[Flyingpiper59]

Help a newbie!…..Pray tell….what is an open valve engine….

[Scott_Conger]

[Scott_Conger]

and for the very discerning motorist (Russ!) some pictures of rare accessory covers (photos courtesy Mitch Owen):

IMG_0356.JPG (25.32 KiB) Viewed 3674 times

IMG_0355.JPG (25.1 KiB) Viewed 3674 times

[RGould1910]

Russ. Question for you. Did you replace the lifter guides during your restoration?. I've owned two 1910s with open valve engines and haven't experienced your issue. I puchases the right size lifter guides (except for the length) which I used to replace the originals. They are a tough bronze, I don't recall the alloy. They work well. I do recall opening up the id's to 2.5 thou clearance but have not experienced oil leakage problems.

[Russ_Furstnow]

Maybe my oil problem is a bit exaggerated. I just did not like having to clean up the oil from the valve lifters. I purchased the car and have not rebuilt the motor as it runs well. But the bra works great! Russ Furstnow

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

I refuse to wear a bra while driving my T. I might drive topless, but refuse to wear a bra. But I will however take my open valve on a long drive this weekend and let you know how I fare. These Ts were meant to be driven, life is far too short to limit your dance.

[Norman Kling]

I don't think you will get much less oil from the regular driving than one with a closed gallery, however, you will draw more dust and dirt and some water so be sure to use splash aprons on the car.
Norm

[John kuehn]

I’ve wondered about what the very early T’s open valve engines looked like after a few months of everyday use. I really don’t think they were kept neat and spotless like they are kept now for the most part.
Dust, rain and muddy roads would have gotten the engines compartment grimy to say the least. Or so it seems. I’ve seen a few at swap meets over the years but they were cleaned up really nice and it was usually just the block itself.
I don’t think I’ve seen any early photos of the early engines in everyday use. I’ll bet they would be interesting.

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

I took my open valve T for a nice drive today 50+ miles, over flatland, hills, and wonderful Idaho farmland roads with the Western Idaho Model T Club. My T chugged right along at a nice clip, though I must admit I have a Warford installed to give my engine some compassion. Yes, I have oil that leaks here and there, but nothing major that doesn’t get cleaned up with a rag when the ride is over. Replace the engine with another and put my open valve out to pasture? No way, for this is living.

[ThreePedalTapDancer]