Modern axle seals with a long keyway.

[JohnH]

The axle seal I'm trying to use is the modern type with neoprene seal pressed into an aluminium cup.

I've had good success with these on other cars, but with my car there's a problem with one axle where the keyway extends to under the seal.
You can see here how far up the axle taper the keyway goes:

Problem is even with the seal right against the bearing, only the inner lip makes contact. The outer lip obviously doesn't seal and just gets cut away by the keyway.

Short of replacing the axle, how is it possible to use this type of seal? The felt type only 'just works' if the steel thrust washer is dished in to the point where the washer makes contact with the bearing.

[Craig Leach]

Hi John,
Yes that keyway will give you trouble & may not work with the felts. Replacing the axles could help, taking the axles out & cutting the groove
3/32" & adding a 5/32 washer between two fiber spacers ( between the axles ) may help also. It seemed to work for me with the stamped style
modern seals. Finding a shorter bearing ( they are out there ) will help also.
Craig.

[speedytinc]

Your axle is one of a run with the key slot cut to deep. (bad repop) I was of the impression the current crop does not have this issue.
I consider this problem to make these axles useless. Dry brakes are important.

My best fix was to weld up (fill) the extra deep cut & regrind in a lathe to get a full & proper seal surface.
The situation has fowled me against any "new" axles. I understand there can be an issue with gear fit also.
So I am always on the hunt for good original parts.

[TWrenn]

What kind of seal are you showing in the second photo? Never seen any like that. I just use the same seal you show at the top

[JohnH]

Your axle is one of a run with the key slot cut to deep. (bad repop)

Interesting to know. This axle was made locally by a machine shop Australia in 2004 and was fitted to my car then. Every few years I've had to clean out the grease and oil from the brakes, and this time I had a closer look why the problem kept coming back, and to see if the neoprene seal could be modified (it can't). It turns out this repro axle has a keyway about 12mm longer than the original. To make it worse, this axle is on the kerbside.
I've put it all back together with the felt seal, since the car is due for its registration inspection next week. Looks like I'm stuck with the problem until I'm sufficiently motivated to pull the whole rear end out of the car.

[JohnH]

What kind of seal are you showing in the second photo? Never seen any like that. I just use the same seal you show at the top

That is the actual neoprene seal that comes pressed into the aluminium cup. I wanted to see how far down the axle it could go if it wasn't for the aluminium cup.

[TWrenn]

What kind of seal are you showing in the second photo? Never seen any like that. I just use the same seal you show at the top

That is the actual neoprene seal that comes pressed into the aluminium cup. I wanted to see how far down the axle it could go if it wasn't for the aluminium cup.

Okay, that's what I thought, obviously I've never needed to do that so never tried it. It's a shame that key way is what it is, but that other guy had a pretty good idea of how to "plug it up"...I'd try good old JB weld first, just have to make sure the keyway is super clean so it sticks!

[Scott_Conger]

Sleeve it

there are commercial sleeves made to repair shafts whose seal surface has become grooved and no longer seals against pressure. You have a slightly different situation but the sleeve would work just the same. It will have to be destroyed/removed to service the bearing in the future, but can simply be replaced again. It will be a permanent fix for you and you can use the standard seal with this fix.

Here: https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/129/3977/5187T37

Or here: https://www.timken.com/products/timken- ... i-sleeves/

Or here: https://vehicleaftermarket.skf.com/us/e ... leeve-kits

Installed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2BKl8N65qo

You'll not use the "cup" driver since you're going over the axle, so you'll have to come up with your own driver, perhaps out of seamless tube...Once installed, the "drive lip" is twisted off at the score-line and you're simply left with a nice shiny continuous seal surface.

I think you get the point...

redi-sleeve-1573834661657.png (169.72 KiB) Viewed 2544 times

[JohnH]

Scott, I was actually thinking about a sleeving option earlier today and what I could use or make. But now seeing as there's commercially made products for the purpose, it's definitely the way to go (thanks for the links!). Having to destroy the sleeve to get the bearing and inner seal out is no problem when they're available in quantity.

[Scott_Conger]

You're welcome, John

your problem practically begs for this solution and I will be interested to hear if there is anything stocked locally for you to where you do not have a long wait... I'll bet you'll have one in hand pretty quickly

[Norman Kling]

I would not try to weld up the keyway. The heat from welding could affect the temper of the axle causing a weak point right where they are most prone to break. You could try the inner seal and the felt outer seal. Wheel bearing grease is thick and less likely to leak out on the brakes if the liquid grease is kept inside the axle and not mixed with the wheel bearing grease. Also keep the pumpkin grease at the proper level.
Norm.

[Original Smith]

Why not just put in the key after the cap?

[Art M]

I have heard of someone filling the groove in the seal lip area with JB Weld and had success with keeping oil from passing through. I wouldn't arc weld on the axle shaft.

Art Mirtes

[Mark Gregush]

Why not just put in the key after the cap?

Because the keyway was cut in such a way that it would go under the seal, extending too far back when cut.

[JohnH]

This shows how different the keyways are. First up is the orignal with the keyway measuring 73mm.

Then the repro. The keyway measures 85mm and extends past the tapered section.

So there's 12mm, or almost 1/2" difference. Re JB weld - I did actually try that a few years ago. It was very difficult to profile it exactly the same as the axle, and it didn't work anyway. Next time I took it apart, the JB weld was no longer attached and oil was leaking past it, even though I did clean the surface before applying it. Maybe the key pushed it out of position when I put the wheel back on.

[JohnH]

The sleeve is now installed. But first, this shows clearly what the problem is:

The sleeve (SKF 99106) is driven on with the supplied piece of tubing, but due to the length an additional piece of pipe was required as a drift:

The flange of the sleeve bottoms out on the Hyatt - that's as far as it can go. (Not sure if you can install the sleeve the other way round - but the instructions say to do it this way). The flange is then cut off:

Because of the sleeve not going as far down the axle as I'd like, the actual neoprene seal has to be slightly proud of the aluminium cap. Fortunately, it still clears the wheel hub.

I will check for leaks in a few months time, but it certainly looks like the best way to deal with the problem.