improvements
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Topic author - Posts: 103
- Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:49 pm
- First Name: Vincent
- Last Name: Ryan
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 TOURING CONVERSION
- Location: El Cajon
- Board Member Since: 2023
improvements
Do lighter aluminum pistons significantly reduce vibration?
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- Posts: 1957
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:23 pm
- First Name: Jeff
- Last Name: Humble
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Canadian coupe, 1924 TT C-cab, 1924 runabout
- Location: Charlevoix, Mi
- Board Member Since: 2006
Re: improvements
No, not in my experience.
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- Posts: 834
- Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:27 am
- First Name: Richard
- Last Name: C
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 Touring
- Location: Lake Country, Virginia
Re: improvements
Is a counter balanced crankshaft the answer?
Everything works in theory.
Reality is how you determine if something works or not.
Reality is how you determine if something works or not.
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- Posts: 1241
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:01 am
- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Nunn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Runabout
- Location: Bennington, NE
- Board Member Since: 2017
Re: improvements
Weighing and balancing pistons and rods would probably have a greater effect on reducing vibration. This assumes that your other rotating engine components are balanced too. My T runs fine with cast iron pistons. Contrary to current automotive wisdom, my modern has a 2L 4-cylinder engine with an aluminum block and steel pistons. That seems backwards to me, but it runs really smooth.
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Topic author - Posts: 103
- Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:49 pm
- First Name: Vincent
- Last Name: Ryan
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 TOURING CONVERSION
- Location: El Cajon
- Board Member Since: 2023
Re: improvements
I guess the only improvement I’ll do going back up is the one piece valves.
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- Posts: 1404
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
- First Name: Mack
- Last Name: Cole
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: TT. T express pickup,speedster project.
- Location: North Carolina
Re: improvements
They built over 15 million model T Fords with cast iron pistons and etc.
Most ran until they were worn out 4 times over being stock or repaired with what was around at the time.
Build your engine to the best you can afford to do and have fun with the T.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'
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- Posts: 6609
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: improvements
A simple answer is maybe. It may even be noticeable. The new alloy pistons are very well matched in weight, so that's a good start. They are much lighter than the old cast iron items, so that would help too. But you may still not notice any difference, especially at normal T speeds.
The difference becomes more noticeable when you fit a counterbalanced crankshaft, balance the rods, flywheel assembly, transmission drums etc.
Allan from down under.
The difference becomes more noticeable when you fit a counterbalanced crankshaft, balance the rods, flywheel assembly, transmission drums etc.
Allan from down under.
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- Posts: 181
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:41 pm
- First Name: Bob
- Last Name: Coiro
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Touring
- Location: Commack, NY
- Board Member Since: 2009
Re: improvements
I'm going to refer to the late Harold Sharon (the brass-car guru and engineer who wrote "Understanding Your Brass Car"). His position was that the ideal weight for reciprocating parts is zero. Of course, that's not possible, but the closer you can come to that number, the better for vibration, wear and all-around efficiency. That does make sense, but the more we depart from the original design and materials, the further we get from the antique-car experience. The reason we drive these cars is to go back in time and experience what it was like back in the day. My car has aluminum pistons, a high-compression head, a high-volume intake manifold, an NH carburetor and a flat-tube radiator. It's a great touring machine, the engine runs nice and smooth and has very good power (for a Model T), but sometimes I wonder whether I've made too many compromises with the historicity of the car.
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- Posts: 7391
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
- First Name: Pat
- Last Name: McNallen
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
- Location: Graham, Texas
- Board Member Since: 2021
Re: improvements
Well-designed aluminum pistons that are properly fitted make a substantial improvement in performance. Lighter weight gives lower bearing and connecting rod inertia loading and quicker acceleration. Modern design pistons and rings give far better durability and oil control with less blow-by than original designs. Aluminum pistons allow an engine to run at somewhat higher RPM without loss of durability. Aluminum pistons together with a counter balanced crankshaft, one piece valves, a good cam, and a good auxiliary oiler make for a much smoother and more durable engine than the original equipment while providing more usable horsepower, better fuel and oil economy, and will allow for better hill climbing and higher sustained road speeds.
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- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
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- Location: Graham, Texas
- Board Member Since: 2021
Re: improvements
Improvements aimed at increasing performance are best reserved for later model cars, particularly the 1925 and later cars.
However, significantly reducing engine vibration can benefit earlier cars by reducing wear and stress on the entire car in the case of earlier cars that are driven extensively.
Very early cars are lighter than the later ones and had more power to begin with, besides being a lot rarer.
With a very early car, I would strive for originality over performance.
However, significantly reducing engine vibration can benefit earlier cars by reducing wear and stress on the entire car in the case of earlier cars that are driven extensively.
Very early cars are lighter than the later ones and had more power to begin with, besides being a lot rarer.
With a very early car, I would strive for originality over performance.
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- Posts: 4634
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
- First Name: Norman
- Last Name: Kling
- Location: Alpine California
Re: improvements
One thing not mentioned is that Aluminum expands more than iron. For that reason if the engine overheats it can cause the engine to seize. This can score the cylinder walls. Norm
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- First Name: Pat
- Last Name: McNallen
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
- Location: Graham, Texas
- Board Member Since: 2021
Re: improvements
Correct running fit is essential with any type piston, and aluminum pistons likely would need to be fitted with more cold clearance than cast iron ones. As for scoring, a cast iron piston would probably do more damage than an aluminum one would in that situation. Quality modern aluminum pistons have very good expansion control as well as excellent oil control. I'd want to use them in any engine that I expected to put road miles on. Exceptions would be a very early car or an extremely low miles later one with original internal engine parts in good condition.
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- Posts: 1419
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:53 am
- First Name: Terry
- Last Name: Woods
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Model T coupe, 1926 4 door sedan
- Location: Cibolo (San Antonio), TX
Re: improvements
ryanpad wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:01 pmI guess the only improvement I’ll do going back up is the one piece valves.
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Vince, if you don't have a way to accurately check the balance of your T crankshaft and flywheel/transmission assembly, at least weigh your rods and pistons and match them in weight. I've read Ford did not do this at the factory, but instead weighed them and just matched four sets together, as close to the same weight as possible. If the rods and pistons are weighed separately, it is relatively easy to remove a little weight here and there to make them match in weight.