Starter Bendix help

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varmint
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Starter Bendix help

Post by varmint » Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:19 pm

We purchased a replacement starter and it came with paint on the Bendix gear which was badly pitted.
Our original Bendix is in better shape.
bendix01.jpg
bendix01.jpg (65.81 KiB) Viewed 2614 times

The head sleeve is missing so I bought one from the vendors.
But the counter weight on the gear is missing so I figured that the other one could be reused.
I tried using a drift through the two holes on the stop nut to loosen it.
bendix02.jpg
bendix02.jpg (79.39 KiB) Viewed 2614 times

Even with several tons, I'm unable to get the stop nut off the end.
What am I missing?
Thanks guys
bendix03.jpg
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Vern (Vieux Carre)
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Scott_Conger
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:22 pm

oh my...

those pix do not bode well for the rest of what you cannot see.

There is nothing on that silver painted Bendix that you want to use.

Good luck.
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

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Chris Instness
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by Chris Instness » Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:35 pm

The stop nut unscrews. It is not a press on/off fit.
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by Allan » Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:16 am

Cut two bullet head nails just under the head and put the stub end in the sleeve holes. Grip the assembly in soft jaws in a vice and screw it around so the nail heads engage the soft jaws and stop it turning. Now you are free to use a wrench to screw the drive out of the sleeve. This will overcome the upsets in the thread which are made to stop the sleeve coming off

Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.
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Jerry VanOoteghem
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:06 am

You really need to abandon both bendixs and get a good one. As Scott has mentioned, there is nothing on the silver painted one that is reusable. It's junk. Swapping the sleeve and counterweight is not a viable option, since each will be damaged during removal, making it nearly impossible to reuse.
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by DanTreace » Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:55 am

Spiked upsets to keep nut on, just use small drift in the holes, to push them back a little. Remember to re-spike that nut when replaced, so it stays on!
IMG_2576.JPG
IMG_2587.JPG

Stop nut is threaded, so use those holes to place. very short nails cut, or other tool to keep the nut fixed, most times soft vice jaws can hold it. Have used the bolt from the Bendix spring threaded in the shaft, and add a bit of leverage using a pipe for handle to un-screw the Bendix shaft from the nut.




IMG_2594 (1500x977).jpg
IMG_2597 (1500x1054).jpg
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by Allan » Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:52 pm

Dan shows how to do it. Excellent! The only thing I do differently is fit a standard bendix drive bolt in the end, and use a 12" crescent wrench to wind the sleeve off. The wrench is the lever for turning and the bolt is the stop, just as the short nails are the stop in the sleeve.

Should the sleeve go back in exactly the same spot when refitted, there may be little thread to upset to stop it coming off again. Simply remove it, take a little off the end on a surface plate and emery paper, and it will thread on a litlle further, giving you some new thread to upset.

Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by RajoRacer » Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:03 pm

Additionally, Red Loktite is your friend in this application !!!
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by varmint » Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:22 pm

Thanks guys!

Chris,
I did not know that it unscrews. Neither the Service Manual nor the bulletins helped.

Allan,
Nail heads is the way I went.

Jerry,
Even though I had a new Head Sleeve on order from the vendors, I considered abandoning these and may still start fresh. But for now, it does not hurt to explore.

Dan,
The LEFT-HAND threads under the gear lead me to believe that they continue under the nut. Alas, they do not but are RIGHT-HAND fine threads. So, thanks for the photo.


The Bendix that came with the purchased starter still will not turn. The fire tool came to mind but it's 95°in the shop.
Bendix04.jpg
Bendix04.jpg (32.47 KiB) Viewed 2343 times

However, the original Bendix unscrewed easily.
Bendix05.jpg
Bendix05.jpg (41.72 KiB) Viewed 2343 times

The purchase is junk scrap. Time to cut.
Bendix06.jpg

*When the counterweight is pressed into the end of the gear it hits the wedge and spreads outward, keeping it in place. I had to squeeze the four tabs on the counterweight first before reinserting it into position.
*The counterweight can line up in two orientations.
*The gear can align in three different orientations.
I'm glad I took photos first.
Bendix7-8-9.jpg

The four tabs were staked and then a fresh pin/spring was inserted.
Bendix10.jpg
Bendix10.jpg (37.62 KiB) Viewed 2343 times
Waiting on the Head Sleeve to get delivered.
Vern (Vieux Carre)
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Mon Jun 19, 2023 12:06 pm

Vern,

You may just prove me wrong yet! When I've had loose or broken off counterweights, I took them to a welder who welded the small tabs to the back of the gear, (not counting on the center punching to get it tight). If you go that route, have the welder make very small beads, such as you would get from a good TIG welder. Weld on the backside of the counterweight and NOT on the gear side. I've never had one come loose.
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by speedytinc » Mon Jun 19, 2023 12:13 pm

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 19, 2023 12:06 pm
 Vern,

You may just prove me wrong yet! When I've had loose or broken off counterweights, I took them to a welder who welded the small tabs to the back of the gear, (not counting on the center punching to get it tight). If you go that route, have the welder make very small beads, such as you would get from a good TIG welder. Weld on the backside of the counterweight and NOT on the gear side. I've never had one come loose.
I would not trust the prick punch setting to hold.
The counter weight gets a lot of banging in operation.
I have seen many with a factory crimp come apart.
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by Allan » Mon Jun 19, 2023 8:21 pm

I have found many originals with the counterweight loose, and more with the counterweight bronze welded in place at the tabs.This is a perfectly good repair. Just don't go nuts and get bronze everywhere.

Allan from down under
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by RajoRacer » Mon Jun 19, 2023 8:27 pm

I'd be a little suspect of the starter condition if that's the Bendix that accompanied it !
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by varmint » Mon Jun 19, 2023 9:43 pm

The starter spins but don't know the torque quality yet.

Since the Bendix was already at the vice, I didn't take the parts to a welder, but picked up the welder and moved it to the parts. :D
Gave it plenty of weld and then just cleaned it up. A Nickel serves another great purpose.
Bendix11.jpg
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Scott_Conger
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Jun 19, 2023 9:47 pm

Vernon

the guy who "rebuilt" the starter should know the stall torque as part of acceptance testing, and forward that information to you if requested. I wouldn't hold my breath, but that info really should be available to you.
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Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by Allan » Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:45 am

The starter was listed as a replacement, not rebuilt/reconditioned, an that is what it is.

Allan from down under.
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:28 am

Allan

thanks for that...duly noted and my error...that certainly changes the equation.
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Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

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varmint
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by varmint » Thu Jun 22, 2023 1:31 pm

Nut was staked in place.
Got the head sleeve on this morning, assembled the spring, installed it on the starter. Motor turns over.
Bendix12.jpg
Bendix12.jpg (43.93 KiB) Viewed 1974 times
For the few interested, this is what the listing said:
"Model T Ford Starter 6 volt Rebuilt runs Excellent!
Complete with excellent working used drive. Yes is ready to install."
The 2 washers on the screws with tabs had broken tabs. (replaced with new screws and washers)
But it all works now.
Vern (Vieux Carre)
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Jerry VanOoteghem
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Re: Starter Bendix help

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Thu Jun 22, 2023 5:22 pm

Excellent news! Looks like you've done a great job!

Not pleased with the "inaccurate" description you were given about the replacement starter however.
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