Installing Shield and running board

[bill goodheart]

I have been installing these on my 1919 touring. I am not sure how the running board and shield fit together. Does the bottom edge of the shield sit on top of the running board or should it be the running board sits on the edge of the shield. Are the rolled edge grooves supposed to mesh together. I have the wooden blocks under the running boards, they are about 11/16" thick, on an earlier thread some have said the blocks being supplied are too thick, which also affects the fit.

Bill Goodheart

[Rich Eagle]

See if this answers some of the question.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1458201406

[Scott_Conger]

Bill

this is about the only subject on a T for which facts lose out to wives tales and voodoo magic. On this subject, facts will fail you every time

there are tons of threads mentioning all manner of thickness (John Regan posts are correct), and even some which mention an additional block/spacer fitting OVER the rear fender flange and UNDER the running board.

I just went through this and can verify that various permutations will result in a T which quivers under tension while at rest, and the fenders appear to flap at odd angles. On the other hand, with blocks shaved as appropriate and placed in strategic locations your T will sit square and look just beautiful. I found with mine that to get the running boards at the correct relative height to the fenders and sit level to match the fender flanges, each of 4 blocks required a slightly different thickness and a couple needed a taper to level out a running board brace which was restored to "flat" but bowed upward a tad when installed.

good luck...it's the most sublime experience you will ever know when it all comes together correctly

[bill goodheart]

DSCN1683.JPG

Thanks to everyone for the helpful replies. The link to the older post with the pictures was great. Another question I have is, the top edge of the shield has 2 ears with fairly large holes, they are spaced the same distance as the body to frame brackets, so I assume they go between the frame bracket and body bracket with bolt going through the shield holes. This is the way I have it now, but it seems like the shield should go ahead about an inch and a half to line up the holes with the running board and the front fender holes. Also I have a large gap where the front fender and shield meet on the frame.
Here is a picture of that. Any help or suggestions will be appreciated

[Scott_Conger]

Bill

find your hood strips...lay one over the fender/apron. You will see exactly what goes where.

[RGould1910]

I just this week finished fitting the fenders, splash aprons and running boards on my 1912 roadster. The aprons go first but don't tighten the body down to the frame just yet. Next go the running boards. Now the important part. Lossen the rb bolts so you can slide the aprons forward and backward so the rear vertical edge of the apron is exactly lined up with the rear edge of the running board.

Before tightening down the running board, pull the bottom of the apron close to the inner edges of the running board both front and rear so there is little gap between the two.
Now proceed to install the fenders.

As to whether the bottom lips of the fenders fit above or below the bottom lips of the running boards depends on which gives you the best fit. On my car the front fender lips were below the apron lips, the rears were above the apron lips.

The biggest concern is getting clearance between the aprons and the fenders. If you can't get clearance, you need to make butterfly ties to keep the fenders and aprons from rubbing.
I've seen original cars with those ties.

One thing I forgot to mention. If your body is on the car while your fitting these pieces, you'll need to raise the body a little so the aprons can slide forward and backward. I did it by lifting the body a half inch or so and wedged in a rubber tire block both front and rear, to keep it there, one side at a time. I loosened the six body to frame bolts to allow the clearance.

[bill goodheart]

I am still working on this and having a problem getting the bolt holes lined up. I have a question, is the rolled edge of the running board supposed to go into the rolled groove on the bottom edge of the shield.

[Allan]

Briefly, the answer is yes. On some of out Canadian sourced cars there were two bolts at the front of the inner rolled edge of the running board and two slotted holes in the splash panel. At this point the two are bolted together. Earlier cars did not come this way. Those two holes had the effect of making the running boards into left and right hand side items, rather than interchangeable.

It would help if you told us which holes you are having difficulty lining up. I start by bolting the front of the splash panel to the two holes in the top of the frame. Then comes the running board. If the holes for the running board don't line up, it may indicate that you need to adjust the running board brackets to suit.

Allan from down under.

[bill goodheart]

Thanks for the reply. I might be doing this wrong, but I jacked up the body top get a 1/4" between the body and frame bracket and slid the shield in place with the shield "ears" between the body bracket and frame bracket then put the body mounting bolt through the body bracket the shield hole and then the frame bracket. I can easily line up the running board holes and fasten the running board down with the wood blocks in place. The front fender flange is not close to lining with the running board holes. it extends about 2" past the holes. The same holds true for the running board holes and the rear fender holes and also the holes where the rear fender attaches to the shield.

[Scott_Conger]

Bill

are these original parts which came off of an assembled car, or are ANY parts reproduction parts?

I fit new dust aprons onto an original set of running boards and 4 very heavily repaired/restored fenders.

While the dust aprons LOOKED exactly like the originals (which were rusted off at the bottom) I could NOT get them to fit without some extensive adjusting...they could be installed as-is but buckled and bulged and looked just awful, and were under extreme tension as installed...they and the paint would have failed early on

My front fenders were a bit like yours, sticking rearward a little too much even when properly bolted to the frame...the key here is to massage the convex curve over the wheel and the concave curve that sweeps down to the running board to "shorten" the fender, along with biasing the running board support arms "back" a little. If the reinforcing edge along the outer fender edge was cracked and rewelded, or is bent "in" or "out" any, the curves of the fender will be altered and that will affect fit.

I spent about 5 days over a couple weeks getting two new aprons to play nice with 4 original fenders. I was not kidding on my first post that there is a reason why many "T"s end up with fenders that look like they are ready to head south with the geese.

For me, this is a most unpleasant aspect of the hobby, and the results are a direct reflection of the effort expended.

[Allan]

Bill, if the running board bolts easily line up with the brackets, and there is overlap with the end of the fender, this indicates the problem is with these two components, not with the splash shields. Original fenders and running boards have their own set of bolt holes on the top of the frame rail. If you have these bolted onto the correct holes, like Scott suggests, the problem is likely with the profile of the fenders. If they have come off the car you are working on I am at a loss.

You can check the profile of the fenders with a large sheet of cardboard and a felt pen. Lay the cardboard against the fender and trace the outline onto the card. Cut the card along the mark and then compare the shape to the fender on the other side or against a known good fender.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

[bill goodheart]

I inherited the car from my father-in-law. He had put it together in about 1985. Engine is a 1919 non-starter, he put a 1926-27 body on it because that's what he had. The frame is the early type. He had found a 1919 body, but due to sickness he never got in installed. In 2013 I decided to put the 1919 body on it, although I knew nothing about Model Ts. I discovered the Forum, bought a service manual and did a lot of reading, now I know next to nothing but know a little bit. I have been told by local T guys the shield, fenders, running boards were earlier and would work well with the 1919 body. The first picture is of me driving the car home, the shield, fenders and running boards are the ones I am now installing. It still has the 26-27 body on it. The frame is also the early type. The next picture is the 1919 body unrestored.

The next picture is the restored body.

The next picture is where I am now.

I am using the same parts and the same frame, but with a different body.

[George Mills]

Bill,

Changing the body should not matter all that much come fender fit? Sure, there may be some little issue with how the rear fenders fit into the body dimple...but just look at the Rootlieb site and it will should how the inner fender skirt goes for what style body.

Others may disagree and have different sequence, but I learned the hard way some 40 years ago and have just done the same since.

40 years ago, I did a preservation redo of the frame with body in place. (I unbolted the body and jacked it up a bit and removed fenders, radiator and shell, dust shields, radiator clash strips, front and rear fenders). Then spent the entire winter doing the cosmetics

All cosmetically done, went to the reverse order and NOTHING fit right, everything fought me!

I mounted the rear fenders on the iron, but slightly loose... mounted the shields and running boards as a set and left those bolts loose, then mounted the front fenders loose to the running board. It came apart with only the running board brace blocks...went back the same way. As far as fit from there? Did a bit as Allan suggested since my front irons were apparently wall-eyed! Massaged the iron until the 'eye' was directly above the iron at the elevation the first side was at. Then took that whole long assembly, mounted it to the front iron and went back and only then tightened everything up on that side.
Did the same with the other side...except...made a story stick from floor to 1st side iron height, used it on the other side and cold bent that iron until I had alignment under the fender mount, and heigh was the same as other side. On both had to do some push and shove to get all to seat but once seated just tightened all bolts up and stayed that way until some 20 years ago when it was taken back to a chassis. (After that, the radiator and clash strips went on easy and hood worked out too...just two separate operations.

Good luck, if your rear fenders are for a touring, all should go good, and it is just a bunch of frustrating fiddling from there...the big trick is tighten NOTHING until everything works out! I don't think you'll bulge the splash shield if it is on the frame correctly.

[bill goodheart]

George, thanks for your reply, I am happy that you detailed your experience with installing the same items. I think you restored my confidence. Right now I am having an issue with the bottom edge of the shield setting out too far on the RB brackets. There is not room enough to get the running board on the bracket so the bolt holes line up. I have the shields on so that the 2 "ears" fit between the body bracket and the frame bracket, with the bolt going through the brackets and shield Is this the right way to install them?

[DanTreace]

I have the shields on so that the 2 "ears" fit between the body bracket and the frame bracket, with the bolt going through the brackets and shield Is this the right way to install them?

The shields are fitted as you described. The holes for mounting are elongated larger so you can shift the shield as needed. Sometimes a push to 'bend' the shield lightly is necessary, especially if new repros, to conform the curve at the shield edge for fit to the running board flange. Also the frame and running board brackets have to be true for all the metal and body parts to fit up.

Leave the body mount bolts slack until all is fitted, some vice grips at spots help to hold at different places. Use a soft blow hammer if needed to nudge things.


Assembly of a '24 runabout, but similar. On these a bracket is used at the front of the running board to pull the shield in place and prevent rattles.