What to expect after buying a car

[Oldav8tor]

First, let me apologize for such a long post.

I only own one Model T but thru our club I have worked on roughly a dozen cars - most bought by people new to Model T's. A few problems have come up over and over again, to the point where I would tell any buyer to expect to have to deal with at least some of them, sometimes at substantial cost.

Frequently Model T's come with little or no documentation as to what has been done to the car. One of the worst (mechanically) cars I've seen was supposedly "completely restored" by the sellers late father but everything mechanical required attention. You name it, this car had it and worse. Mismatched parts, cracked tranny drums and broken shaft, stripped starter ring gear, damaged rear axles and babbitt thrust bearings, two-piece valves, bent front axle, loose steering links, badly worn wishbone ball..... other than that, the car looked great...from 10 feet away it was a nine!

I'm sure that the more experienced among you can add to the list but this is what I would tell people to expect:
1.) Rear axle: If you don't know of the condition of the rear axle and driveshaft, expect to have to disassemble and inspect it at a minimum. Most end up replacing axles, outer hyatts and seals. Some I've seen still had babbitt thrust washers which MUST be replaced. Don't neglect the drive shaft and universal joint along with the drive shaft bushing. When it's apart is a good time to install a modern pinion bearing and perhaps floating hubs if the budget will allow.

2.) Front axle: If you look closely at the front axle you will find that many are bent. In addition, the spindle bushings are frequently worn as are the tie rod bushings and front (and rear) spring bushings. I prefer bronze if you can find them though most vendors sell steel. You want to tighten up all these connections or you may experience the infamous "Death Wobble." Don't forget to check the condition of the front wheel bearings. Replacements can sometimes be hard to find.

3.) Steering: The steering quadrant needs to be packed with grease-check it annually. Also make sure the little screw that holds the cover in place is installed...you don't want the wheel coming off in your hands! If the gears in the quadrant are worn, replacement pins and gears are available. The bottom of the steering shaft rides in a casting containing two bushings. These bushing often become worn and require replacement.

4.) Engine / transmission: Often just worn out. A surprising number still have two-piece valves and cast iron pistons. If the engine is noisy, lacks power, has low compression, etc., there may be no choice but to rebuild ($$). The transmission is difficult to properly inspect but cracks across the drums can be seen if you have someone crank it over slowly while inspecting them. Cracks in the web can only be seen when the tranny is disassembled. I prefer to leave the engine to someone who knows what they're doing. To give you some idea as to how often the engines in these "new" cars need service, our club pulled at least ten in the last year. Typical cost to have a pro go thru it, $5000-7000

5.) Wheels: Are the spokes loose or in bad condition? Plan on having them rebuilt. If you go thru Stutzman you can expect to spend at least $1000 on four wheels when you add in shipping.

There are more items that belong here but these are the highlights. I don't want to discourage people, I just want them to go into a purchase with both eyes open. To me, a lack of information on what has been done to a car affects the price. I would suggest that all car owners keep an accurate record of what what work was done if for no other reason than to help the car's next custodian.

[Steve Jelf]

I agree on almost everything. Bronze bushings are easy to find online by size. I was able to pick them up at a store just 35 miles from me. While wood felloe wheels are best done by a pro, new spokes for steel felloe wheels cost about $144 a wheel and assembling them ain't rocket surgery. But the suggestion that new wheels are expensive even as a DIY project is correct.

[5 WoodenWheels]

Interesting post. My '23 Touring came with meticulous documentation, all mechanical systems had been gone through and the receipts for related parts were included in a thick binder. Maybe the work hadn't been done yesterday, but driving and listening to the car supported the documented repairs. It's a strong runner and presents very well.

Nevertheless, within the first year I spent roughly another thousand dollars on new parts to keep the car running and on the road. New coils, a carburetor, kit to rebuild the starter bendix and some other things I can't think of right now. Oh, I added turn signals but that didn't cost very much.

I think I got off easy. It's been said here that the best value in a Model T is the one you spend the most for initially. I tend to agree with that. "Project cars" can be had cheap, of course, but I tell new Model T buyers that they can expect to spend at least two to three times what they paid for the car in order to get it on the road. That's a conservative estimate, could run into much more money--especially if the new owner has to pay someone to do the work.

So much for the money part. The other thing a new Model T owner can expect is to bring joy wherever you go. People are fascinated with these cars--even if they don't really care about automobiles in general. Kids want to sit in it, parents want to take photographs, people will have a million questions. If you are an introvert, you won't be one for long. Since my car is a solid "driver" and not a show car, I am always happy to let people pose and take photos. For many, it's a rare opportunity to see and feel a real antique car. And it's not a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, after all. It's the car that put America on the road.

[Ed Fuller]

Here are my additions to the list:

-Gas tank (replace or clean thoroughly, when done cleaning, clean it again)

-Sediment bowl (screen usually missing or dirty, shutoff handle either broken or seized)

-Fuel line (usually poorly routed, wrong material, or unneeded inline filter installed)

-Radiator (usually leaking, dirty, or clogged)

[Sarikatime]

About six months ago a beautiful car for sale came to my attention. It was love at first sight and still today. After requesting additional pictures and history, I realized the seller paid less than market value a year ago but wanted top dollar today. The tires were old and cracked, the wood wheels were loose, there was a freeze crack in the block along with a big glob of bondo or something on the drivers side of the block indicating a rod may have gone through it at one point. If the motor was just patched haphazardly and parts randomly replaced to make it run again, who knows what mismatched parts are in there. Those older brass era blocks with specific dates are rare and can get expensive. So, that means a new motor. All of this just from examination of the pictures and not even seeing or driving the car. I am sure there would be further problems, rear axle bearing problems, and all the small but expensive worn out parts on the car that would have to be addressed with time. I just named roughly $15 thousand dollars of what I would have to put into the car once I bought it and now I would be $15 thousand or so upside down. I would still love to have the car, it is beautiful, but not for the asking price. Frank

[John kuehn]

A point to remember is if you put $ 15.000 in a T don’t expect you can make money after you do it with the intention of making money.

You can find a pretty solid car that others have put the time and the money in to it for a decent price if you look. The same goes for any antique or classic car. Very few make a big profit from building a car after they have purchased it for a good deal and spending $$$$$$$$ afterwards.

[HughFisher]

Tim, thanks for your list of things to look out for. I am new to the forum and in the market for a T. Your post is very helpful as I begin the journey of learning about what makes Model T's tick. Or not tick. Forum topics are great primers, but I can't wait to get my hands on a T of my own to really start to learn! I have a vintage Jeep, as well as two Austin Healeys, and a T is next on the list. Thanks again for your post.

Hugh

[Rich in Colorado]

Tim,

Great list of items to look for. I bought my first T I wish I'd looked for all that. Having been a Model A owner for 20 plus years I thought I could know a Model T status. I pretty much had to go though your list, 1 to 5!

One thing I would add, that I wished I knew about, was the wood. Mine is a '22 center door that if I knew about the issues with the wood, no reproduction wood available, I wouldn't have bought the car.

Thanks for the list!

Rich