Engine won't start - please help

[shaun.smit@gmail.com]

Hello MTFCA.

Writing for suggestions to get my '15 touring engine running again. I got the T from my grandpa and it ran great for year. I had it running last Summer. At that time it was running rough and I didn't try to address it until this Summer. This Summer I had the carb rebuilt and it was tested working on another engine from a local guy. I removed the timer and thoroughly cleaned the black/dirty grease out and packed new grease in the timer. Adjusted the timer to 2.5" between the center of the timer pull rod and the center of the bolt head that secures the timer. Perhaps this is wrong?

The coils are producing spark at each plug in the correct 1,2,4,3 order when the plugs are removed and leaning against the engine block. I have tried to adjust the spray needle incrementally by 1/4 turn from 1/2 turn open to 2.5 turns open to try and determine if there is an optimal setting. Fresh ethanol free gas. It did try to start a few time for two pops. I do not see gas pouring out of the carb overflow.

Thank you for your help and suggestions!
Shaun

[SteveK]

Shaun, I'm new to "T's" but I've been working on one for a week now. Best if you get this corroborated---The spark needs to be firing around the engines compression stroke. Did you set the timer in relation to top dead center of cylinder !? If not, just google Timer setting and theres lots of instructions, all easy to follow. With clean fuel and spark the only thing left to get right should be timing.

Steve

[Steve Jelf]

From your description I gather you have a stock Ford roller timer, and the 2½" method should work. But just for fun, check/set your timing the other way. https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG97.html

You didn't happen to remove the roller, did you? Some camshafts have a hole all the way through, which makes it easy to install the roller 180º wrong.

[speedytinc]

Timer "packed with grease". Thats not how Henery did it. Clean out the grease & lube with a few drops of motor oil.
A thick grease could be working against the roller spring, missing contacts.

[TXGOAT2]

Grease may be fouling the timer. Ford recommended motor oil. Opening the spray needle from 1 to 1 and 1/8 turns is usually sufficient. Spark plug gap needs to be correct, and plugs need to be clean and in good condition. The fact that they will spark when laying on the head does not prove that they will spark under compression.

You didn't mention using the choke. Many engines will require some choke on an initial start. It is not uncommon for some gas to drip from the carburetor when choking the engine. That tells you to open the choke at least halfway and keep cranking. Opening the throttle about 1/4 open can aid in starting.

Timing that is too early can be dangerous when cranking. Timing that is too late when cranking will make starting difficult. Using thick oil will make starting difficult.

If the engine hasn't run in a long time, putting a little motor oil in each cylinder, then cranking the engine with the plugs out, may help starting. About half a tablespoon per cylinder is enough.

[SteveD]

I'll second what Steve, John, and Pat said. And if the roller came off, especially what Steve said. Been there, done that.

[TWrenn]

Just because the coils are making sparks grounded on the engine doesn't mean that they're GOOD. Have them tested. Roller timers are notorious for "slop" hence poor performance. I'm so spoiled with my now unobtanium TW timers that work perfectly all I can say is try the next best thing, either a Tiger timer or a New Day, IF you can find a decent New Day repop. Have had bad luck with even the "latest New Day repop" on the market and found myself another TW for my Fordor and never looked back. This is why I'm trying to "resurrect" the TW timer production piece by piece. Also check the coil box wood...you may be getting carbon tracking that you cannot see causing issues too. Maybe the screen in the "potato" under the tank is half plugged, prevent decent enuf fuel flow. Tons of possiblities here you just have to work through them one by one. You'll get it.

[Rich P. Bingham]

Columbo turned around and said, "Oh - just one more thing. Have you checked compression ?"

[NY John T]

One really DUMB thing I realized with engine not starting..... Wait for it.... gas shut off was in the off position. Some of the simplest things can really set you off.
Good luck,
John

[TWrenn]

Columbo turned around and said, "Oh - just one more thing. Have you checked compression ?"

Quite possibly one of the best things to check first! I'm ashamed I didn't think of it as that is the first thing I check when looking at a possible purchase. Brain dead today! Thanks Rich!

[shaun.smit@gmail.com]

Thank you everyone!

I removed and cleaned timer then lightly lubricated it with motor oil. You're right Steve it was fun and I learned a bunch when I set the timing as you suggested! Yes, it's a roller timer that I didn't remove from the shaft.

But just for fun, check/set your timing the other way. https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG97.html

All spark plugs are new with gap set, clean. I engaged choke 1/4 and opened spray needle 1 turn. Adding a touch of oil to each cylinder was a huge help, Thank you! However, not much happened.

Then I remembered reading in multiple places to open spray needle from a "light seating." I seated the spray needle super light then opened 1 turn, opened throttle about 1/4. Third crank had some ignition so I kept at it. Ultimately, I was able to get it to chug 6 times on one of the cranks, I released the choke, started to lower the spark and open the throttle slightly and it died out. I tried about 30 more times after that and couldn't get past a few pops. Fully choking seems to increase verge of ignition.

The exhaust manifold is warm, I'd say a good sign. To be sure, I should fully retard the spark to start it correct? That's what I've been doing...

Bending the timer linkage rod to the correct length is a pita and I gave up on that for the moment to see if I was making progress. I realized after it nearly started that I can't stick my hand in there to adjust spark if it gets going, yikes, so I'm using the detached linkage rod. I wish there was some kind of pattern to bend the rod to.

[TXGOAT2]

It sounds like you're getting close. Next time it tries to run, leave the throttle alone at about 1/4 of the way open and advance the spark about 3/4 of the way down. You can move the spark lever quickly.
A dragging clutch or bands will make starting difficult.
If it doesn't start after a few more tries, remove the spark plugs and be sure they have not collected any soot or oil.
If you're trying to start on magneto, it may be helpful to connect a 6 or 12 volt battery to power the coils.
Once it starts and runs a few minutes, it will probably be much easier to start.
You will soon learn what works best to start your particular car under various conditions.

[RajoRacer]

Open the mixture up to 1 & 1/2 turns from lightly seated - perhaps it just needs a bit more fuel.

[speedytinc]

Its unfortunate you messed with a known running carb. Could you impose on your friend to run it on another T?
Then note the setting. Open another 1/8 turn to cold start.
Trying to reset may not actually be reseating the needle. If the tensioning nut is too tight with a worn shaft, the needle wont reach the seat when it feels tight. you can confirm the condition by loosening the nut & reseating to a true seat. Then open 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 . It will be rich. After it starts, lean in CW 1/8 - 1/4 turn.
Get your timer rod in position & properly set for retard. (Jelf method) I know its a PITA, but it takes time & fiddling. If the rod is to far mangled, replace it with a new one & start the bending process over again. (Been there.....)
Choke. After the second 1/4 choke pull, fuel should be running out onto the ground.

[Gen3AntiqueAuto]

If a T has been sitting or newly rebuilt - it is possible that there is no "suck" when cranking. Pull the plugs, add a little motor oil to the rings and try again. If you wailed on the mixture knob, you may need to look at the needle. 1-1/2 turns off a SOFT seating/closed position. RETARDED spark. Two revolutions of the engine while pulling the choke, then let go of the wire...