Rootlieb apron to fender mate

[popeyet]

Has anyone been successful at mating the apron and rear fender of Rootlieb parts? I wanted to connect them with the standard bracket but they just don't line up correctly.

[John kuehn]

Loosen the frame to body bolt or take it out. You then can push the apron or move it just enough to get it lined up. You may have to use a file to file the hole in the apron enough to get the body to frame bolt to go through it. I did that on one of my cars when installing new aprons.
You may have to loosen the bolts for the fender too. A good tool to use for aligning fender, brackets, running boards are long taper punches. They work pretty well for that purpose.
Harbour freight tools has them in sets at a reasonable price.

[Allan]

It is not good practice to bolt panels together with any tension between them. It will almost certainly lead to cracking. Get the panels to align first, then manipulate the brackets to get them to fit. Rivet them to the fenders and use them as a guide for the bolt holes in the aprons. Resist the temptation to lever stuff to get the bolts to go in.

Allan from down under.

[Ron Patterson]

To ?????
Tom Rootleib pareticipates on the Forum as Dollisdad.
Try contacting him and i am sure he will have insights to your problem.
Ron Patterson

[John kuehn]

I don’t know if you checked the running board support u channels if you had the body off the car. The running board supports over time get slightly bent downward after many years of use.
I bought some new aprons for my 24 Coupe and found out the holes in the apron on the passenger side was off the correct location. I have a sheet metal hole punch set and repunched the hole to the side a bit and it lined up a lot better.

I also would do as Allan said to loosely put the sheet metal parts on loose. Even when using NOS sheet metal or some really nice ones you still will have to maneuver the parts some to get them to fit.

When installing new body parts they don’t always drop in exactly. The same goes when buying the new wood structure kits for Model T’s. You may have to alter or maneuver them in a little. It’s nothing new.

[RGould1910]

I've seen riveted butterfly shaped pieces of sheet metal installed on what appear to be original cars. Ive seen them installed on both the front and rear spaces between the fender skirts and the edges of the splash aprons to close gaps and prevent rattles. Without them you need some gaps otherwise they will rub together causing wear and rattles as you drive. The gaps you pictured look about right to me.
Here's mine The tape prevents scraping during installation.

[FATMAN]

I have a pair for sale see photos,Bob

[popeyet]

to RGould:

yours does look a lot like mine. and that was kind of what I was looking for. I think I can get the arch of the two parts to match but your fender and mine both curve toward the back of the car and that is what makes using the bracket tough. I don't really understand why the fender curves back? It takes a lot of pressure to pull it forward, and then it makes the top of the fender tilt.

I'm going to keep playing with it to see what I can do. I would still like to see if anyone responds with the success of bracketing the two together.

Thanks all!

[Distagon2]

Speaking of butterly brackets, here is one type that is on a set of original rear 12 Roadster fenders. I doubt the bracket is original, but it looks like it might be of use for my current project.

[Allan]

Bob's brackets look like new reproductions. The originals with which I am familiar are of somewhat heavier gauge, and they are a bit more complicated than they seem at first glance. Because they mount to a curved splash panel, the two hole side of the bracket needs to be curved to match that curvature. It's not a lot, but if you just drill and bolt up, it will pull a distortion into the splash panel, with varying results to the finished look. That two hole side of the bracket needs "adjusting" to get a correct fit.

Allan from down under.

[RGould1910]

Greg, the bracket in your photo is the same as those off my 1912 roadster. The fenders were trash but I saved the brackets. They may have been factory installed.
I thought.I saw them on the late Phil Minos car at Tulare a couple years ago.

[popeyet]

I saw this old advertisement this morning:

[DanTreace]

Think the early Ts didn't have any fender to apron braces, but around 1915 or so Ford added an internal bracket.

This photo is an original '15 touring, with some repairs over the years.

And the early ones could have been accessory braces, here are two examples, 1915 catalog and a 1923 auto parts catalog.

[rickd]

Had to smile when I opened your post this morning; just spent the last 3 days rolling around under my 25 touring installing panels. In addition to the good advice you have received I would add my process started with installing the front fenders first, then the aprons and running boards and the rear fender was last. Bolts just snugged and then the aligning, re-installing and patiently getting it all close starts. I paint my car panels and then assemble so I use plastic lids cut up for the bolts to go through to try to protect panels. I also needed to adjust the thickness of the repo running board blocks to get the aprons and boards to mesh correctly. Lots of patience needed.

[popeyet]

rickd:

are those original panels/fenders or Rootlieb?

Thanks,
Chris.

[rickd]

The front and rear fenders are original, the splash aprons and running boards are reproductions. The brackets on the rear fenders are pictured in the Ford Service Manual, figure #5 on page 1.

[rickd]

Chris, another pic showing final alignment. The brackets on my rear fenders were part of the original construction of the car. This is a late July 25 Touring.

[popeyet]

rickd:

Thanks. I'm still trying to find someone who has installed Rootlieb rear fender and been able to connect to apron with a bracket. The fenders seem to curve back away from the apron where to "V" point is about an inch away from the apron. The successful assemblies in this thread are with original fenders, that seem to be flatter in the face.

I'm making progress, and think I have figured out how to make the apron fit well. Just can't get my fender to come forward without a huge amount of pressure and then it twists the top.

btw, this is not to knock the Rootlieb part! I am so thankful that I could order these parts. I just don't know if I'm missing something and/or if someone who has been successful can explain what they did.


Chris.

[Allan]

Chris if you are having to bring the front of the fender forward to get a better fit, I would be checking to see if the fender brackets are allowing the fender to sit at the correct height.
Perhaps the.y need some fettling to set them higher, which will bring the front forward some.

Allan from down under.

[rickd]

Chris, one more idea; I tighten up the rear fender eye bolt after getting the front of the rear fender meshed with the apron and running boards. That eye bolt setup allows for some minor rotation of the rear fender. In my installation, I then tightened the apron bracket nuts and then the fender to running board nuts and lastly tightening the eye bolt nut. Sometimes a lot of fiddling and re-doing things required. Good luck!

[popeyet]

OK, here is where I am now...can anyone explain why a fender is designed with a curve to mate up to a straight edge of an apron?...

[Model T Matt]

they had a bump out on the rear of 15 for the brake rod clearance on the splash apron have had a roadster and a touring that had that bump out