1920 Canadian Touring

[Haas]

Hello all! I am looking at what I am told is a 1920 Canadian Touring. It belonged to a gentleman I knew for years that passed away last year, and his widow is ready to sell it. Looking it over, it appears to be in excellent condition, radiator is full, oil level is good, interior and paint are in great condition, and it has a Ruckstell and Rocky Mountain brakes. However, it has not been run in over 10 years as the gentleman developed some health issues and was no longer able to drive it. I can see that the fuel tank will need to be pulled and boiled, and I'm sure the carburetor will also need to be gone through. Now for my controversial question, what is a fair offer to make on this car? I'm in Southern CA in the middle of the desert if that makes any difference. I know that is a very hard question to answer without actually seeing the car, but I am completely unfamiliar with the model T market and would appreciate some guidance. Thank you!

[Erik Johnson]

If it were a Canadian touring, it would have a driver's side door.

[Dan Hatch]

Should also have a one man top me thinks.

[Haas]

So this would be just a regular Touring?

[Hap_Tucker]

Gerrit,

As pointed out above a Canadian body touring car would have a door on both sides of the front seat. And in 1920 model year they switched to the slant windshield and one man top that was introduced in the USA production with the 1923 model year T's. It also has the USA style horn button instead of the Canadian horn button on top of the steering wheel.

But almost all of the Model T Parts will interchange. So without looking to see if the rest of the car was made in Canada (does it have Made in Canada on the engine block, on the transmission cover, under the Ford script on the radiator shell, on the running boards etc. or Made in the USA?

But the value of a Canadian or USA 1920 touring would be similar. So then it goes back to the condition of the car. And is it the type of car you would want? Have you already ridden in or driven some T's? If you are 6 ft 6 inches tall -- a speedster might give you more leg room etc. But for taking the family for a ride -- a touring works better as it has more seating room.

If the owner was a member of a local T club, then some of the members there might know something about the car and could offer some additional information. Was the car a reliable driver or something else.

It has California Antique Tags so if it is located anywhere close to you -- I would recommend take a look and take someone with you that is knowledgeable about the Ts.

An older 2010 posting has some information on the value of a T see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/142749.html And prices for T's haven't been going up. Hemmings Motor News used to have lots of pages of T's for sell and now they have only a few pages.

So if you are new to T's -- i.e. you are looking for your first one -- go for a ride or drive to see how they fit and how slow they are compared to a modern car (OK - speedsters, high compression heads, Overhead valves etc go faster) .

Good luck with your search.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

[Wayne Sheldon]

Who says it is a Canadian touring? Cannot tell for certain that it does not have a driver's door, but it does not appear to be. Also who says it is a 1920? Headlamp lenses are later than that, but they could have been changed. The angle of the photo does not show the body well. The front seat arm/cap appears to be the wider style, which might indicate the earlier five panel rear tub as opposed to the later three panel rear tub. That change was made between 1920 and 1921.
For whatever it is worth? Canadian touring cars switched to slanted windshields and one man tops about 1920 (a 1920 Canadian touring car could be either way?), almost three years before USA built Ts made that change.
Originally, from the factory, oil side and tail lamps were only used on open cars that did not have the starter and generator "electrics" package option! However. many Ts originally sold without the electrics package were later retrofitted with that package. And a lot of hobbyists in the past 3/4 century added oil lamps because they liked the looks. Does the car have the starter and generator?

All in all, it looks like a very nice model T that has suffered neglect in the recent decade. How solid and strong does the body seem to be? (Be aware that they were not exactly rock solid even when they were new!) And how good is the upholstery? Those two things have a great effect on the value!
The gasoline tank itself is likely the thing most damaged by more than a couple years neglect (modern gasoline is nasty stuff!). Generally, model Ts are very forgiving of neglect, and don't take a lot of work to be back on the road just as good as they were twenty years before.

[Haas]

I appreciate all the information! I have not looked to see if anything is marked made in Canada, however that is not a huge deal to me whether or not it is. I was just told it was a Canadian Touring, but had not verified that, and whether or not it is does not matter a great deal to me. That said, I would like to know exactly what it is and will try to get more information on that. Unfortunately, I don't know of any model T club out here and I'm pretty sure he was not part of any clubs, but I know it was this gentleman's pride and joy and have no reason to believe it gave him trouble. I'm 6' 4", but I did seem to fit pretty good in it when I sat in it. It is a local car, so that is nice.

[Haas]

It does not have a driver side front door. Upholstery is very nice as it has always been in a garage and we live in the dry desert so moisture is not a problem. The body is very solid on it, no rust at all. I was told it was a Canadian Touring years ago, but the gentleman was not sure on that. His daughter who is taking care of selling it says it is a 20, but I didn't have much time to look at serial numbers or anything when I looked at it today.

[Haas]

Oh, it is equipped with starter and generator.

[Humblej]

Does not appear to be Canadian to me either, but Canadian or not, based on the single photo, it is a great looking complete and correct car that will take very little to get running and driving again. A "fair" price is $9,500 and not a penny less, title or not, running or not. Anything less is not fair and is taking advantage, anything more is unreasonable.

Amending my response: "fair" is a relative thing. Human nature is everyone wants to buy at the lowest price and sell at the highest price, and will consider both prices to be fair. I do not know anyone who insures thier car for what they actually paid, or for even the "fair market value". That being said, In my opinion, that car is a nice one, and "worth" $9,500. So ask yourself, if you owned it, what would you insure it for? And if you insure it for more than you paid for it did you really give "fair" offer?

Better yet, as we will all be in the same situation someday, if you owned that car and died, what do you think your widow should get for it today?

[rickd]

Maybe I missed it in all of the other posts about the body; See what engine is in the car and if it is stuck. If it hasn't been started in 10 years and there are issues with the engine that will certainly affect value. More info on the engine serial number may also help you clarify the year of the car. From the picture it does look like a nice T. Good luck.

[Mark Nunn]

The car has a MTFCA sticker on the windshield. Someone in the local or national club my know more about the car and its owner.

[frontyboy]

The Canadian T's I have been aware of used square drive screws in the body. These are a 4 square drive. They were used in both sheet metal and wood applications. Not sure how long they were used. I also think the engine blocks only had Ford script or no script not made in USA.

just sayin'
brasscarguy

[Steve Jelf]

Whether you buy this T or another one, your location is a plus. You live in the largest county in the USA, and it has some good Model T roads (and off-roads).

[Wayne Sheldon]

The Canadian T's I have been aware of used square drive screws in the body. These are a 4 square drive. They were used in both sheet metal and wood applications. Not sure how long they were used. I also think the engine blocks only had Ford script or no script not made in USA.

just sayin'
brasscarguy

Canadian built model Ts began using Robertson screws by 1915, so a 1920ish Canadian car should have them unless they have been changed out by a USA restorer.

[Haas]

I know plenty about the off-road trails! We collect antique jeeps and you better believe they are not just for show!

[Kerry]

The blocks had the Ford script and Made in Canada on them until the end of production, and the C first on the engine number.