Issues swapping "new" rear end

[RadRacer203]

So I picked up a parts car with a Ruckstell a few weeks ago, and just got around to swapping the Ruckstell into my coupe today. Unfortunately it had a few issues, just wanted a second opinion before I order a few parts.

The Ruckstell itself is in excellent shape and shifts nicely, so no issues there. But there's a really bad clanking/knocking coming from the front now, I assume it's the u joint, possibly driveshaft bearing, but is there anything else it's likely to be? It just makes a lot of noise, but there is very very little vibration, so I doubt it would be a bent driveshaft or something. The car drove to the shop just fine, all we did was take the rear end off at the spring and at the u joint, didn't mess with anything else.

The other issue is the left brake is dragging. I had this issue very slightly before, and put my old hubs on the new Ruckstell. Nothing appeared wrong with the shoes, and the hub went on alright. I was going to order a new set of one piece shoes to rule those out, but is a bent drum a common occurrence on these cars? I may order one even if it isn't necessary, but there's not much else it could be, is there?

[Humblej]

"The car drove to the shop just fine, all we did was take the rear end off at the spring and at the u joint, didn't mess with anything else."

Michael,
A Model T rear end is a significant part of the car. For proper operation and safety, a rear end should be thoroughly disassembled, inspected, and usually rebuilt. That includes the rear axle assembly internals, driveshaft assembly internals, U-joint, etc. Did this "new" rear end get taken apart and inspected first?

[RadRacer203]

I'll get to it at some point, I was debating swapping the known good u joint and driveshaft bearing from my other rear end, but ended up not doing that and apparently paid the price. I did give it a cursory look and the axles didn't really have any play, I put on new seals, and changed the oil. Right now though I'm just worried about fixing these couple issues so I can drive it home.

[Humblej]

Michael,
Addressing a couple of issues is not the way to go. I would suggest reinstalling your old rear end for now to drive it home, and wait to do a proper rebuild to the Ruckstell rear end for a replacement later.

The U-joint, driveshaft bushing, driveshaft, driveshaft race, driveshaft bearing, and pinion gear, all work together to set the gear lash with the differential. Back in the day a Ford dealer could jack up the back of the car, pull the left half of the rear axle housing to remove the rear axle and differential, install a new Ruckstell axle and differential and be ready to drive. That is with a new car with all parts within specs. Dropping in a 100 year old "new" rear end of unknown condition that shifts smoothly without much play is asking for trouble. Bear in mind that the only braking for the car is the transmission brake, loose a U-joint, or a pinion gear, or a thrust washer and you have lost your brakes. Replacing a couple of things to get it back on the road is a mistake in my opinion.

If your engine brakes down and leaves you by the side of the road it is an inconvenience, have your rear end fail and it can kill you and others.

[speedytinc]

Michael,
Addressing a couple of issues is not the way to go. I would suggest reinstalling your old rear end for now to drive it home, and wait to do a proper rebuild to the Ruckstell rear end for a replacement later.

The U-joint, driveshaft bushing, driveshaft, driveshaft race, driveshaft bearing, and pinion gear, all work together to set the gear lash with the differential. Back in the day a Ford dealer could jack up the back of the car, pull the left half of the rear axle housing to remove the rear axle and differential, install a new Ruckstell axle and differential and be ready to drive. That is with a new car with all parts within specs. Dropping in a 100 year old "new" rear end of unknown condition that shifts smoothly without much play is asking for trouble. Bear in mind that the only braking for the car is the transmission brake, loose a U-joint, or a pinion gear, or a thrust washer and you have lost your brakes. Replacing a couple of things to get it back on the road is a mistake in my opinion.

If your engine brakes down and leaves you by the side of the road it is an inconvenience, have your rear end fail and it can kill you and others.

"Addressing a couple of issues is not the way to go. I would suggest reinstalling your old rear end for now to drive it home, and wait to do a proper rebuild to the Ruckstell rear end for a replacement later."

Thats good advice.
Its beyond my thinking to pop in another rear end in without going thru it first from axle nuts to U-joint.

[RadRacer203]

I mean, I agree, and I will be going through it at some point, but I don't see how it's any different than me driving on my previous rear end that was also a complete unknown in this car that was parked since 1987. I drained and refilled the oil and there was no metal in it, checked that the axle bearings didn't have excessive play, it shifts fine, and the pinion and ring gear seemed tight. I will check it out at some point, probably over the winter, but right now I just want to get it installed and driveable

[Humblej]

What is the difference between driving on the old rear end and the "new" rear end? In your words its this:
"But there's a really bad clanking/knocking coming from the front now, I assume it's the u joint, possibly driveshaft bearing,"

Don't get caught in the old wives tale that Ford made the Model T simple enough for a farmer to fix with bailing wire and basic tools, he didn't.

Best of luck to you, hope it works out OK.

[RadRacer203]

What is the difference between driving on the old rear end and the "new" rear end? In your words its this:
"But there's a really bad clanking/knocking coming from the front now, I assume it's the u joint, possibly driveshaft bearing,"

Don't get caught in the old wives tale that Ford made the Model T simple enough for a farmer to fix with bailing wire and basic tools, he didn't.

Best of luck to you, hope it works out OK.

The reason I'm swapping is the new one is a Ruckstell, and seems a bit better overall than the other one. Thinking my best option might be to swap the entire known good driveshaft over to the Ruckstell. I know the old rear end is in good shape, and the Ruckstell seems to be very good except something in the driveshaft/ u joint area. Should give me access to do at least a cursory check around inside the diff too

[Allan]

Wiser heads have advised that you at least dis-assemble the Ruckstel and rebuild it as needed. That way you will have addressed your one or two issues.

"The u-joint, driveshaft bushing, driveshaft race, driveshaft bearing, and pinion gear, all work together to set the gear lash." That is true, to a certain extent. They do work together as a unit and that unit is set for the depth of engagement with the pinion gear, but it does not set the gear lash. The correct full width rolling contact between the gears is achieved by shifting the differential assembly within the axle housing.

Allan from down under.

[JTT3]

I’ll pop some popcorn this should be interesting

[Norman Kling]

Noises from the rear end can be telegraphed forward to the transmission or engine. Since it ran well before with the standard rear end, I would suggest you swap it back into the car so you can drive it for the summer and while it is out, go through the Ruckstell. You can have anything from bent axle tubes to worn out bearings. Or it could be the inner parts worn or not adjusted properly. The left axle might be worn at the taper, causing the drum to scrape the shoes or other inner parts. If you the drums are the same and they worked fine before, you might need a new axle shaft, . If different drums, perhaps your former drums might be fine.
I would also suggest you get a set of auxiliary brakes for the rear wheels, just in case something between the transmission and the axle brakes. Or another thing with Ruckstells, sometimes someone has ground a groove to keep it in neutral or a missed shift
could cause it to be in neutral and lose your transmission brake.
Anyway, you will not find out exactly what is the problem unless you check it out. The club publishes a book called "Ruckstell Axle" It has very good do it yourself instructions. Most parts are either available from Chaffin's garage or other vendors.
Norm

[Bill Mullins]

Just a thought .Ball cap could be loose & need a shim.

[John kuehn]

As posted above the repair manuals can really help getting your driveline parts working as they should. You can work on a T to a point but eventually you’ll need to at least start looking at the avaliable manuals for working on a Ruckstell and the complete rear end.
Sometimes it’s best to read them to learn WHAT NOT TO DO. Besides there is some really good advice from this forum that can guide you in the right direction.

[RadRacer203]

Ok, I've got a couple reprint manuals ordered from Lang's. Gonna pull the driveshaft and take a look inside the diff next, and what I see there will decide what I do.

[Stephen_heatherly]

I would not be driving a car with any rear end in unknown condition, period. As others have warned, the transmission brake relies on every component in the rear end being in good shape. I've had dozens of rear axles apart, some out of running cars, and not one of them was in condition suitable for safe use. They are always worn out. A ruckstell, when worn, can easily get stuck between gears and cause you to have no brakes, not to mention the countless other things that can go wrong leading to the same outcome. The fact that you suddenly have issues that you didn't have before you swapped out the rear end tells you something inside the ruckstell rear end is wrong. You will not be able to assess the condition of the Ruckstell simply by removing the drive shaft assembly. I would either trailer the car or rebuild the rear end before attempting to drive it.

Stephen

[JTT3]

Stephen you’re just saying that because it’s true.

[RadRacer203]

Well, good news and bad. Bad news is I can't actually find anything wrong with the Ruckstell that would make that knocking noise, everything seems tight. Good news is that means I'm not running it, gonna pull it apart to rebuild or at least check out first

[babychadwick]

Often there will be comments of "you must do this" and historically (a number of decades ago) it wasn't nearly as "important" as it is today.

In diagnosing the ruxtel I would Jack up both wheels and see if it's making the noise or if it's only under load. Rebuilding is always good advice BUT I would like to know beforehand the cause as well as what caused it.

A good example is a broken driveshaft, tear it down rebuild it and it happens again. However, upon diagnosis it may have been found that the bearing used was a new solid roller and the lack of groves resulted in a reduced lubrication. . .

[speedytinc]

So did you check the D.S. also?
A shattered D.S. bearing inner race and/or bearing will exhibit the symptoms you are experiencing.

[RadRacer203]

So did you check the D.S. also?
A shattered D.S. bearing inner race and/or bearing will exhibit the symptoms you are experiencing.

My plan now is to pull it completely apart and check it out, the axle bearings seemed a bit worn. When I install it I'm going to use my known good driveshaft off my original rear end