Seized Triple Gear Bushing

[Plankhill]

Anyone have any good way to remove a seized triple gear bushing off the pin?

[Dan McEachern]

If it has seized, the ID is galled and there will most likely be bronze bushing material fused to the pin. Best is to split it with a small , sharp cold chisel and pry the remains off the pin. There is a solution to this problem and its well proven. Just ask those who use them!!

[Steve Jelf]

You may need a different flywheel too.

[JTT3]

Dan me like!!!!!


Brandon your going to have to remove the drum stack & then you could use a big 3 jaw puller if that doesn’t work you’ll have to remove a few magnets to drive the pin out. I’d use a lead hammer and large drift to see if I could move it as a last resort. Best John

[Gen3AntiqueAuto]

Dan are you selling these bearing kits?

If it has seized, the ID is galled and there will most likely be bronze bushing material fused to the pin. Best is to split it with a small , sharp cold chisel and pry the remains off the pin. There is a solution to this problem and its well proven. Just ask those who use them!!

DSC00033.JPG

[Joe Bell]

I put it in a press and push the old triple gear pin through the triple gear, the pin is junk any ways!

[Wayne Sheldon]

Like our incredible dauntless geezer said, it is likely that you will need to replace the flywheel. The soft cast steel of the flywheel does not wear well, and once the pin seizes to the gear and begins spinning? The hole will wear out quickly, off-center, and crooked. The placement of those holes and pins is extremely critical!
However the hole is resized (welding, shimming, custom oversize pin?), the placement of the hole must be accurate within about one thousandth of an inch in all directions, and perfectly straight. It takes a very good machinist, with a very good milling machine to accomplish that. If you have to pay real rates for the work? Just milling the new hole will likely cost several times what you should be able to buy a good flywheel for.

John T T 3 may be right. IF (big IF) the bushing has truly seized onto the pin, and yet still hangs onto the gear? Just getting the mess apart might be a nightmare! Sometimes, driving them out from the manet side will work. Although, usually, if they ran long enough to be seized solidly onto the pin? Often the hole will have already enlarged enough for the pin to drop through easily. I had one years ago, that when I took the engine apart, two pins and gears dropped right out and landed on the concrete floor. One of them (the worse of the two) was solidly seized onto the pin, and never came apart. The other one, pin, bushing, and gear went their separate ways just dropping out of the flywheel, still hanging on the chain hoist!

It is important to understand that the flywheel's hole from Ford's factory had a slight overcut on the magnet side. The pins had a slight shoulder to fit tightly into that overcut. It isn't much, and many people working on flywheels don't even notice them. However, it is enough, that when new, prevented the pins from working out of the flywheel and blowing the transmission to pieces! It was set up such that it was a very tight fit, the small shoulder wouldn't allow the pin to work out toward the drum side, and the magnets bolted in place wouldn't allow the pin to work out forward toward the block. Actually a pretty well thought out design!

Sometimes, people do try to press the pins out from the magnet side toward the drum side. Sometimes, if the pins or holes are worn a little, it works. Sometimes, if they apply enough pressure, that shoulder will hold out and a big chunk of the flywheel comes out in little pieces! Never done it myself, but have seen it after the event. And, no, they were not aware of the small shoulder until it was pointed out to them.

Good luck!

[Gen3AntiqueAuto]

when they seize to the pin the other side of the bronze bushing breaks free. I've yet to see a pin spin in the flywheel.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I've yet to see a pin spin in the flywheel.

Well then, today is the day...
(Photo courtesy of Tim Juhl)

Flywheel2.jpg (111.33 KiB) Viewed 4885 times

[Oldav8tor]

Neat photo, eh? Expensive too. Now that I know the symptoms, I think the problem actually started soon after the engine and tranny was rebuilt. Even so, it kept working for over 5000 miles before finally reaching the state seen in the photo. The pins on two of the gears just spun in the flywheel while the remaining gear spun on the seized bushing.

[speedytinc]

Did you figure out why??
Dissecting a failure such as this is important to not repeat with other fellows.
Too tight on the bushing clearance?
Some of that expanding brass?
Lack of oil?
Assembled with grease?
Must have made quite a racket as the bushings seized, maybe bucked & locked up in high for a while.

[RajoRacer]

Tim - did your rebuilder or you decide to use the "early" riveted triple gears in your rebuild ? Were the rivets verified for tightness ? Just curious.

[Oldav8tor]

I was a total newbie at the time that I had the triple gears seize. I had no idea what was happening.

The engine and tranny were rebuilt by a very reputable rebuilder. The only explanation I can come up with is that the bushing clearance was too tight to allow for bushing expansion, a problem I know they were aware of at the time. I have a 1917 engine that I added a starter to so the flywheel was replaced during the rebuild. They also did the repairs and I've put over 4000 miles on the new tranny with Zero issues.

As to the gears, the rebuilder made the choice and I have no idea if the rivets were checked. New gears were used in the repair. I did a total transmission rebuild with new drums and components from Dave Nolting.

Before the final failure, I had two other instances where the transmission seemed to lock up ---- always after using reverse gear. It made a bit of a racket and bucked a bit but then settled down and appeared to be "normal". It was always on tour with knowledgeable people around but they had no suggestions other than maybe adjusting the bands. I think I drove it a long time with the pins spinning in the flywheel, about 3 years. I think I would recognize the problem now.

[Dan Hatch]

Ball sizing the triple gear bushings is the way to go.
Also, use the best pins made. Not the cheap ones that have to be polished for half a day each.

[Plankhill]

My has been in there for 100 years. The pin is tight. Back to the question. Any ideas on how to remove it.

[JTT3]

I guess you didn’t like the gear puller idea. You’ll note that the original pins have a machined center, perfect place to center the puller. You could also use copious amounts of heat in the process to perhaps give a little relief. As stated previously if you have to drive the pin out, be sure to have some backing support to avoid potential cracks at the pin hole. Good luck, John

[Art M]

If I understand his issue, the transmission assembly will not separate from the flywheel. Normally the triple gears slide off the pins when removing the transmission from the flywheel. The seizure prevents this.

A procedure that might work would be to drill out the pins from the engine side. This might save the flywheel.

Art Mirtes

[speedytinc]

If I understand his issue, the transmission assembly will not separate from the flywheel. Normally the triple gears slide off the pins when removing the transmission from the flywheel. The seizure prevents this.

A procedure that might work would be to drill out the pins from the engine side. This might save the flywheel.

Art Mirtes

This would be an unusual situation. My last GUESS.
You need to be SPECIFIC in regards to your situation. Is the drum pack off? flywheel on the bench? etc.

A normal ASSUMPTION would be the gear turned on the bushing, but the bushing is seized to the pin. The flywheel is on the bench.
The 2 answers of splitting the bushing or pressing out the pin thru the bushing are both good.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

If I understand his issue, the transmission assembly will not separate from the flywheel. Normally the triple gears slide off the pins when removing the transmission from the flywheel. The seizure prevents this.

A procedure that might work would be to drill out the pins from the engine side. This might save the flywheel.

Art Mirtes

This would be an unusual situation. My last GUESS.
You need to be SPECIFIC in regards to your situation. Is the drum pack off? flywheel on the bench? etc.

A normal ASSUMPTION would be the gear turned on the bushing, but the bushing is seized to the pin. The flywheel is on the bench.
The 2 answers of splitting the bushing or pressing out the pin thru the bushing are both good.

Let's not read more into the OP's words than he has stated. He asks simply, how do you get the bushing off of the pin. There have been some very good replies to that. Either split the bushing, perhaps with a nut splitter, or cut 2 grooves, 180 degrees apart, for a gear puller to grab onto. Personally, I would opt for those methods and then inspect the pin before I'd blindly declare the pin "dead" and remove it.

[Art M]

I didn't read the question close enough. The others have offered good advise. In the future, I will try to make sure I understand the issues before commenting.

Art Mirtes

[Les Schubert]

I almost NEVER change the triple gear bushings. I almost ALWAYS change the pins. Just based on my experience!

[Art Wilson]

I'm thinking that a small hole could be drilled through each triple gear pin at an outward angle from the engine side of the flywheel so that oil being slung off the flywheel could be picked up and directed to the pin bushings.

[Cordes_jeff]

Put a deep cut in it with your Dremel. Then crack it open with a chisel. Slides right off.

[Plankhill]

Thanks Jeff
I will try that.

[Dan Hatch]

Why, are we trying to save the pin?
If that pin is a new from the vendors and you didn’t spend half a day polishing each one they were going to fail.
See Herm’s thread on transmission rebuild.

You will need second oversized pins.
And ball size your bushings so they won’t spin in the gears.

[AdminJeff]

I think I win the worst triple gear bearing.... the noise was like coke cans being drug behind me when going downhill.
I got Dan's needle bearing upgrade and never looked back. Sometimes a new design actually IS better...

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Why, are we trying to save the pin?

Just my take on it... I am 100% for replacing worn out and/or damaged parts. But, I don't replace things "just because." I'd want to inspect the pin first before deciding to push it out or not.

[Gen3AntiqueAuto]

That's a first! Musta made some noise!

I've yet to see a pin spin in the flywheel.

Well then, today is the day...
(Photo courtesy of Tim Juhl)


Flywheel2.jpg