Engine Binding

[JohnK]

I just rebuild the Ruckstell axle on my 1926 Roadster Pickup. while I was waiting for parts I decided to put new wood band linings in the transmission, and replace and lap the valves. I just got the whole engine back together but every half turn it seems to bind slightly and there is a dragging/grinding sound coming from somewhere. The engine does start and run but will not idle (I only ran it for about a minute). I can't think of anything that would cause this other than something stuck in the rings or something running eccentricity in the transmission but I didn't mess with those so I am really stumped!

[TXGOAT2]

Be sure that your oil pipe is not clogged with debris from transmission bands or gasket material.
Maybe a valve is too tight in the guide. It would probably be one of the exhaust valves.
Valve tappet clearance is important. Too little clearance will cause an exhaust valve to get very hot and might cause a new valve to bind in the guide.
I'd take the valve cover off and be sure that all the valves move freely when the engine is hot.
Out of round or overheating transmission drums might cause such an issue. Be sure bands are not too tight.
Debris between cylinder walls and pistons might cause it. Removing the spark plugs and putting about a tablespoon full of oil in the cylinders might clear it.
Model Ts do not like thick motor oil. Use a good quality 10W30 oil in warm weather.
Never run an engine on stale gasoline. Be sure the gasoline is fresh.

[Norman Kling]

If you did not disassemble the transmission or remove the flywheel from the engine, then the only thing in the transmission I would suspect would be the wood bands. All bands must be perfectly round and the lining the same thickness all the way around. If it is dragging anywhere it could cause a problem. The Ruckstell has many parts which could cause drag. Most important is the condition and fit of the ring and pinion gears. Also the thickness of the thrust washers on the right side of the carrier and also the condition of the big ball bearing on the left. Noises in the rear axle can be transmitted up the driveshaft and sound like they are closer to the engine. I have wood bands in one of my T's and they tend to chatter a bit. I personally prefer Kevlar. Unless you put in new pistons or rings I would not suspect a problem with the engine.
Norm

[Adam]

Maybe a cracked drum scraping on the new wooden band?

[JTT3]

Some good comments in the thread so far but if you’d humor me a bit, did you remove the hogshead to install the wooden bands? You said the engine will run but not idle. Was the Engine running rough or sounded normal other than the noise you’re reporting? Is there a reasonable possibility you may have dropped something into the transmission while replacing the bands. Is the sound metallic or something different? William of Occum in summation said the simplest answer with the fewest variables is generally the correct one. So you really have at least 2 issues, the dragging sound and the idling dilemma. The idle issue could be as simple as a slightly stuck float needle. Enough gas leaking by a stuck needle to start but not to run long. More info on the noise is needed & again good thought shared by others.

[JohnK]

Thank you for the insights, first I should clarify that this binding is happening when the engine is in neutral and doesn't seem to be related to the axle. I did remove the Hogshead to replace the bands as this car has a pre 26-27 narrow band transmission, I also replaced the 4th main, but again that isn't spinning when the engine is in neutral. I did have some issues with the band linings being a little too thick to fit around the drums, but on the advice of Jim Guinn I sanded them down very carefully to a more appropriate size. They don't seem to be dragging either as after I ran the engine I inspected the transmission and felt all the drums, none of which were any warmer than what would be expected.

[JTT3]

I hope your 4th main is never spinning ha! On second thought if you have one of those modified bearing 4th mains though the case shouldn’t spin. Just yanking the chain a bit.

[TXGOAT2]

4th main alignment is critical.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I also replaced the 4th main, but again that isn't spinning when the engine is in neutral.

The output shaft does not need to be spinning in order for a misaligned 4th main to cause binding. Intermittent binding however would not be caused so much by a misaligned 4th main as it would a misaligned transmission shaft. Try loosening the 4 bolts holding your 4th main in place, then while someone is cranking the engine over, see if the 4th main is orbiting around. It would help if you could back the 4th main slightly out of the hogshead to allow it to move at will. Also, notice if doing this eliminates the binding.

[JohnK]

I should clarify that the engine was doing this even before I put the new 4th main in, the old main was completely worn out, nearly 10 thou over what it should be so it could very well be that something is bent in there, but again there is no visable wobble in anything. I'm almost inclined to run it for a little while (say 20mins) and see if it improves but that's probably not advisable.

[JohnK]

Update! Looking at the transmission drums while using the electric starter and putting my finger on the very edge of the band, i can feel the drums are running ever so slightly eccentricity, probably not good... I can see why with the old cotton bands it wouldn't be noticeable but with the wood, they must be dragging somewhat but at higher RPMs float on the oil explaining why the drums aren't getting noticeably warm.

Now, how to fix it...

[JTT3]

So you’re probably not going to like this & I know I’ll catch grief but assuming you don’t want to spend a ton of money…. That said if you have the money I’d strongly encourage to take the plunge. All the following is done in the vertical position after engine pull, once pulled & with hogshead / pan removed you’ll check runout at the tail shaft using a dial indicator, write that number down. You have to remove the transmission (make index marks on the crank flange and transmission so you know where you started from. You’ll become close friends with the transmission soon enough, now check runout at the crank flange. If you’re in tolerance there then you’ll try to align the transmission (if not you have a big decision) to achieve an acceptable runout at the tail shaft that fits into the 4th main. This will mean installing the transmission several times to achieve the least amount of runout as possible.Again this is best done in the vertical position using a dial indicator located to several places to find out where you are. Here comes the spears, If over 6 thou out at the tail shaft (0.000 is optimal but I’ve seen plenty that had a long life at 6 thou out) or more it may mean disassembly and checking the components until you reach 6 thou or less. Ok folks you can jump on me now! Truthfully if your this far in you’ll have some money choices to make. Mike Bender has an excellent series of videos on YouTube that will be instructive.
I’ll try & post a link of one an add it here for your use. I actually like rebuilding transmissions because it’s challenging and makes you really solve issues as you go along. Hoping for the best John
Post script- this is just one to peak your interest. There are multiple videos that cover transmission building. You’ll have to select videos on the open link to see all that are pertinent.

https://youtu.be/39fpe0TIE4E?si=DxJHh1Qgipvw5cF4

[JohnK]

John,
Thanks for the advice, I figured it would be a big job. I have quite a few transmission parts that look to be in very good if not new condition that I picked up at the Auburn Swap meet so hopefully I can find what I need without spending as much. The real issue is space and time, my shop (a garden shed with a small lathe and drill on the top of a steep hill) was just barely big enough to fit the disassembled rear axle and the thought of carrying the engine up to it is daunting. Plus I'm going back to Colorado in August for school. I may keep it complete so I can trailer it out there and do the work out there where there are strong backs and willing engineering students that would love to help.
On a side note, I just now remembered that before I did the work on it, when I was driving uphill with the engine working hard the left pedal would start to violently vibrate, wonder if that had anything to do with it...

[JTT3]

Ah yes. You may be getting ready to join the two piece crankshaft club. Sounds like you’re running elliptically. Not good.

[Craig Leach]

Hi John,
As John T mentioned William Occum ( philosophy known as Occum's Razor ) Look for the simplest solution before complicating things. You said this binding occurs twice per revolution this would most likely involve something that is reciprocating as in a piston or rod. A tight valve would be
every two revolutions. When did you notice the binding (only after the band replacement ) or during the valve work? Did you wipe out the
cylinders? Did you oil the cylinders before installing the head? Did you remove any shims from the rods? A out of round rod journal will bind twice
a revolution. One drum out of round I would think will bind once per revolution two out of round I would think will be constantly changing.
I will have to admit I'm not good enough @ math to figure how often something in the triple gears would bind. Did this present it's self when the
rear end was out? Boy that got away from simple didn't it. Once you figure out what the connection with twice per revolution is then figure out
the noise. The other day I was checking out a no start with multiple issues ( timing & fuel ) the engine had been flooded severely & when checking
for TDC I could hear the rings chatter on the washed down cylinder walls ( twice per revolution with # 1 plug out )
Craig.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Pardon me for asking, but when you crank the engine over and feel this binding, you have the spark plugs removed, correct?

[JohnK]

The binding is happening once per revolution with or without plugs (compression is great btw). I Did drive it around the block today and it seems just fine, now idling we'll and starring without too much fuss (new gas helps alot). I must say that it it did drive for probably over 150miles (to and from school and around town) with the aforementioned clutch behavior. It may be a case of catastrophic failure one day (maybe sooner rather than later) forcing me to rebuild the whole bottom end, but thats part of what makes these old cars so engaging to drive!

[Dan Hatch]

Sounds like a job for Floating Transmission Shaft!!!