Coil Testers

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Brewmaster
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Coil Testers

Post by Brewmaster » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:14 pm

ECCT evaluation:
I am a bit new to Model Ts, but not to Horseless Carriage cars, and have a strong background in the field of electronics. I have three Model Ts that utilize coils, and have beet evaluating the ECCT for over six months.

I must say that I am very impressed with this unit!
I recently had the pleasure of having my friend “Original Smith” (one of the “T Gods”) over to my house for a beer and dinner, and even his response was favorable!

While the old coil testers (HCCT) in good condition, and a highly experienced technician/user can evaluate, repair, and adjust a coil to an almost factory new coil standard for the period, the ECCT is a much more advanced piece of equipment (and an extremely good value).This is not a “Magic Box”, it utilizes today’s technology to look deeper at Model T coils, while making it extremely easy to use by the “Common Joe”. A good analogy wood be the invention of the “ex-ray” or “MRI”.
The ECCT provides 3 tests (with an optional 4th - Magneto); Capacitance test (condenser condition), Dwell test (info to adjust both Cushion Spring & the Bridge), Multi-Spark test (simulates the coil running in your car with an adjustable RPM feature), and a Magneto test (field strength/output) – Optional feature.

All of the tests have a very good explanation by Mike Kossor (the builder) that tell you what to adjust. I also highly recommend the PC software package because it not only provides you with numerical values, but shows a picture/graph of how good your coil is (you can even take a screen shot, print the complete picture of the coil performance (or just keep it in a file in your computer).

The only other thing that I can add is; because coils have wood boxes and change over time with temperature and humidity, some of the numbers can change, so having a more precisely adjusted coil to start with, means the coil will vary less off of the ideal spec., if it is right on to begin with.

I give it 9 out of 10 Stars!

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JohnH
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Re: Coil Testers

Post by JohnH » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:21 pm

That's an excellent summary of the ECCT. Prior to my knowledge of its existence, I designed and built a tester operating on the same principles, but using an oscilloscope as the display device. It can be seen here http://members.iinet.net.au/~cool386/tester/tester.html
Later, a friend loaned me his ECCT for evaluation, and it was obvious right from the start, this was what the Model T world needed - and more importantly, could be operated by anyone. In fact, I was so impressed with it I bought my own. It was pleasing to see that the coil dwell time to fire and multiple spark tests gave exactly the same results as my home made tester.
The PC interface of the ECCT is great - and it's a nice touch to print out a screen shot for each of the coils performance, when I restore them for other Model T owners. With the magneto tester function, it's pretty much a complete Model T ignition system diagnostic tool.

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Jeff5015
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Re: Coil Testers

Post by Jeff5015 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:05 pm

I too, am equally impressed with the ECCT. I was on the fence for about 3 weeks because I'm very frugal. I finally made the purchase, learned how to operate it and tuned my coils. This is the best money I've spent on a part or accessory for my 1916 Touring.

I also bought the i-Timer. While installing it, I just wasn't sure about something and I sent Mike Kossor and email. Within a few hours I had a return email followed by a couple of picture texts and a phone conversation. He is a man truly devoted to the craft and willing to help others.

If you are trying to decide whether to get one of these, go for it. You'll be glad you did.

Jeff
1916 Touring

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Matt in California
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Re: Coil Testers

Post by Matt in California » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:22 am

Ken,
Thanks for your evaluation. Everything that I have heard makes ECCT sounds great!

Here is my decision tree on getting a good set of coils (I should draw this out):
1. Get a good set of coils
a. Buy a brand new set $$$
b. Pay a trusted professional to rebuild a set $
c. Rebuild a set with a good dynamic tester (i.e. ECCT) $$

2. But then you need a way to verify that the coil quality doesn't drift... This leaves the following options:
a. Buy a dynamic coil tester.
b. Barrow a dynamic coil tester.
c. Make a friend with a dynamic coil tester.
d. Join a club that has a dynamic coil tester.
e. Form a club and use the money to buy a dynamic coil tester.
f. Build a dynamic coil tester.

For now I decided on the last option. Thanks for sharing your experience with the ECCT. The more that I work on mine, I think that the ECCT is a great option.

Matt


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Re: Coil Testers

Post by jab35 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:53 pm

FWIW, I have never had a coil that I rebuilt with new Capacitor and Points and carefully adjusted on my Strobospark ever fail any of the tests on an ECCT. And, yes, coil 'settings' do drift with time, regardless of method used to initially tune them. A mechanical structure constructed on a wood foundation will dimensionally shift as the wood slowly 'relaxes' under mechanical and hygroscopic stresses. Just an observation, respectfully, jb


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Re: Coil Testers

Post by DHort » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:13 pm

I highly doubt that any coil tested on an HCCT or a Strobospark will fail when tested with the ECCT. Nuf said.

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MKossor
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Re: Coil Testers

Post by MKossor » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:14 am

Thanks to the ECCT users for sharing your observations and experience using ECCT adjusted coils with the forum. Very pleased it continues to earn high marks and praise.

Dave, of course a coil tested on the other coil testers will not "fail" (to function) when tested on the ECCT but they do frequently fail to pass ECCT test standards (First spark firing Time 2ms >90% of the time) when adjusted in one of those testers. Likewise, coils adjusted using the ECCT frequently do fail to pass HCCT test standards (Average current 1.3A with No double sparks). It may be surprising but its meaningless to compare ECCT adjusted coil performance on other coil testers that use different test metrics (Average coil current of Many sparks Versus time it takes to fire The combustion spark). Its like comparing apples to oranges. The only coil performance test that really matters is how the adjusted coils make your Model T engine perform. The latter method typically results in remarkable performance improvement over the former method. That's Not surprising since engine performance depends heavily on ignition Timing Not Average coil current.
I-Timer + ECCT Adjusted Coils = Best Model T Engine Performance Possible!
www.modeltitimer.com www.modeltecct.com

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Matt in California
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Re: Coil Testers

Post by Matt in California » Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:36 pm

Mike,
I knows that some people may not fully appreciate the concept of adjusting the coils for timing rather than current. But if someone told me that my coils didn’t double spark and the current per spark was exactly matched, but the timing was plus-minus 5% I wouldn’t be impressed!

From your experience what is the absolute timing range (min-max) that a model T coil can a have? My understanding is that the HCCT indirectly adjust the timing. What range have you seen from a HCCT? I understand that 6 VDC, 12 VDC and magneto play a role in this timing range, perhaps you could speak into that.

Thanks!

Matthew

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MKossor
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Re: Coil Testers

Post by MKossor » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:37 am

Matt, Precisely adjusting coils for average current within 0.01% will guarantee the coils fire at different times unless the coil inductances are also precisely matched AND the coil points are adjusted to open abruptly without arcing. Model T coils can vary by +/- 10% in my experience which also means the coil firing time can vary by the same amount when adjusted for the exact same average coil current. Another factor associated with coil firing time is the amplitude and rise time of the test stimulus applied to the coil. Coils adjusted with abnormally low voltage and abnormally slow rise time may function very differently when subjected to normal magneto voltage and rise time. I studied this in more detail in my article: "The Double Spark Doctrine Paradox": http://www.modeltecct.com/uploads/The_D ... dox_V5.pdf
I-Timer + ECCT Adjusted Coils = Best Model T Engine Performance Possible!
www.modeltitimer.com www.modeltecct.com


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Re: Coil Testers

Post by Moxie26 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:26 pm

Please keep in mind that electrical values will change if undue pressure is applied to the upper coil hardware.

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