Tubing

[ryanpad]

Is the headlamp tubing the same material as fuel line?
Should I use it my headlamp tubing that’s surplus to make a new fuel line or does someone need it?

[speedytinc]

Are you are ruining a correctly sized part, dont.
Buy a piece of 1/4" steel brake line. Napa has a variety of lengths.

[ryanpad]

Are you are ruining a correctly sized part, dont.
Buy a piece of 1/4" steel brake line. Napa has a variety of lengths.

Not fair to answer only the second part of the post, but that’s why I asked because I am trying to NOT accumulate parts and if someone wants what I believe to be original then they can have it but I would like to use brass if possible. So…my decision matrix is 1) right material (yes)(no)
Yes= Is it of significant value (yes)(no) Yes= find a home for it No= use it for fuel
Is it a different material? Yes= throw it away unless someone takes it.

[speedytinc]

How bout providing a complete question, like what your tube is made of & your goal in making this post?
The radiator cross over tube material depends on its origin.
Is your tubing off an original radiator or repop? Repop could be copper, steel or brass.
Later year gas lines were steel. Earlier were seemed tubing. Real early brass seem tubing? Not an expert on early brass.
You are not specific as to function - show car or best for a functional driver?
Unless your using the tubing for a 26-7, the crossover tubing will be to short for a fuel line.

"I am trying to NOT accumulate parts and if someone wants what I believe to be original then they can have it but I would like to use brass if possible. So…my decision matrix is 1) right material (yes)(no)
Yes= Is it of significant value (yes)(no) Yes= find a home for it No= use it for fuel
Is it a different material? Yes= throw it away unless someone takes it."

This would have been good to know in the first post.
Still unclear on your goal. You want a brass fuel line? Steel is stronger. I see no advantage in using brass.
Good luck.

P.S. Making an assumption. If your radiator tube is an original 13 brass acetylene tube, I am sure there is someone out there that would be tickled to have it, even if chewed up, for a correct sample.

[ryanpad]

Sorry Speedy hope you’re not upset. My car was a 1913 touring car that was converted to a pickup. I don’t know for sure but my guess is that it was an early conversion. I am restoring it to be a driver. Because it was so badly rusted, to a point where it wasn’t safe, it’s got almost all new tins, the exception being a couple of body panels from the original car. Everything that was wood is replaced. I intend to use 1915 electric headlights that mount as the original lamps did, the way I look at THAT is that it would not have been unreasonable to have upgraded a 1913 in ‘15 or later so that’s how it goes..,this old car never would have been a museum piece so why fake it. Now I do have a little creative license in that since so much of the car is new and the body made here by a local craftsman and as a roadster, I want to build it tastefully. It won’t be a rat rod. The thing about the line is that some people will point to it and let me know that it is wrong if it’s steel so brass avoids that and I have it on hand and it repurposes something I’m not gonna use. Now do I owe something to the model t community hmmmm…no. If you want it I’m in San Diego it’s free to a good home or trade you for some brass tubing of suitable metallurgical and geometric properties.

[speedytinc]

Not upset. If the line is original, go ahead & run your headlight wire thru it. Its a 13 with upgraded to 15 electric(magneto?) lights.
Wouldnt that be expected on such a T?
I wouldn't worry about a light tube. Originalists will tear you apart for a cutoff touring. Build to suit your own likes.

[Wayne Sheldon]

First "huh" clarification? Is this extra tubing you have brass? Steel? Or some sort of rubber? Rubber, red or black? Is it the whole kit? Or an old original"
Brass tubing was used in the factory for fuel line for many years. Hobbyists have ben using copper fuel as a replacement for many decades. Copper and to a lesser extent brass, both have fracturing issues that many people today get up in arms about. However, both have also worked flawlessly on thousands of model Ts. A lot of people today favor modern brake line tubing for fuel lines. It works very well, looks fine, and is (supposedly?) especially fracture resistant due to the safety aspect of the braking system.

I am not sure about your concern about people being offended or complaining about a steel line in place of a brass line? While a lot of "model T purists" can get crazy over minor details, I rarely ever hear anyone complaining about steel fuel lines.

And the extra tubing you have? How long is it? The cross over tube on the radiator is less than two feet long if that means anything. If you are planning to use the existing gas headlamp tubing for your fuel line? That might be okay provided the size is close enough (quarter inch minimum). Would somebody want the remnants afterwards? Probably not. But someone might want gas headlamp setup if it was intact and in decent condition. And a simple fuel line is easy to make and not expensive.

Some facts about your plan to use electric headlamps on your 1913. I don't have a problem with that, and nobody else should either. Many hundreds of era photographs show electrified gas headlamps or after-market electric headlamps on earlier brass era Fords. While "as factory built them" purists may be offended? Don't worry about those people. I tend to be an "era correct" semi-purist, and I think your 1913 sounds wonderful!
However, to be clear, USA production 1915s did not use fork mounted electric headlamps. Canadian production 1915s and 1916s mostly had fork mounted electric headlamps. Even a few early 1917s in Canada also had fork mounted headlamps according to era photographs. Most (nearly all with enough detail to tell) 1915/'16 model Ts with fork mounted electric headlamps have shown to be of Canadian or overseas origin. There are a few factory photos of preproduction 1915s with fork mounted headlamps.
It was believed back in the 1950s that early production 1915s had fork mounted electric headlamps. A lot of hobbyists changed the lamps on their 1915s to fork mounted because they liked the idea. Serious research in the recent forty years has pretty much disproved that idea. However a lot of people still believe it because that was what they were told many years ago. And a lot of people still insist it is true in spite of the fact that many of the photos they point to have been proven to be Canadian cars.
Not to worry. The companies that made the headlamps for Ford, as well as a few other headlamp manufacturing companies, also made headlamps to sell after-market. Probably thousands of fork mounted electric headlamps were installed onto pre1915 model Ts between 1912 and the late 1910s. They are era correct for a 1913 T. Especially for a touring car converted to a pickup truck.

[JTT3]

Other than that Mrs Lincoln how was the play?

[KWTownsend]

Original Larry Smith did a lot of research on 1913 headlamps pipe. IIFC, it was rolled brass pipe that was tin plated. It is routed along the frame to the acetylene generator. The radiator has a crossover pipe with a T on the left side of the car. Red rubber tubing ran from the ends of the crossover tube to each headlamp.

Do you plan to power the lights off the magneto or a battery?
What type of switch do you plan to use?
It will be an interesting wire route!

Please keep us up to date with pictures!

: ^ )

[RGould1910]

I really get a kick out of that line John!

[ryanpad]

Other than that Mrs Lincoln how was the play?

I can’t say, I’m still processing.

[ryanpad]

Thanks for all the great input.
Here’s some pictures of the acetylene line and the end of the fuel one that I need to replace.

[ryanpad]

Okay so dimensionally they are the same but the fuel line that came on my car is brass and the acetylene line is copper.

[Wayne Sheldon]

That "copper? colored line could be in fact a copper colored brass. The color of brass is dependent upon the specific mixture of the brass alloy. Brass is mostly copper and zinc, but sometimes have other metals or chemicals also to give it different working characteristics. The amount of copper versus brass makes a big difference on its color.
Bright brass was used for its appearance on the radiators and lamps as well as some other visible pieces. Darker copper colored brass was often used on items that appearance wasn't so important. The early brass top coils for instance, were originally stained flat black. So the color of the brass didn't matter. A large percentage of them were originally copper color. People today of course like to leave them polished brass color and some have even brass color plated the ones that were originally a copper toned color for the look they want.

[ryanpad]

That "copper? colored line could be in fact a copper colored brass. The color of brass is dependent upon the specific mixture of the brass alloy. Brass is mostly copper and zinc, but sometimes have other metals or chemicals also to give it different working characteristics. The amount of copper versus brass makes a big difference on its color.
Bright brass was used for its appearance on the radiators and lamps as well as some other visible pieces. Darker copper colored brass was often used on items that appearance wasn't so important. The early brass top coils for instance, were originally stained flat black. So the color of the brass didn't matter. A large percentage of them were originally copper color. People today of course like to leave them polished brass color and some have even brass color plated the ones that were originally a copper toned color for the look they want.

Thanks Wayne, So where I’m at now is I’m reusing the gas pipe ( fuel line ) that came on the car. I’ve trimmed back both ends that presented a potential leak path removing 1” +\- and added in a petcock just at the carburetor per a well respected club member’s advice. Kind of a two birds thing. I do now have an acetylene line that’s up for grabs. It seems to be made to go under the radiator? Free to a good home.

[ryanpad]

Finished (until it leaks)

[Wayne Sheldon]

I do now have an acetylene line that’s up for grabs. It seems to be made to go under the radiator? Free to a good home.
[/quote]

If you were anywhere nearby I would be pleased to use that headlamp line! My 1913 speedster actually needs one. But I can make one easily enough if I can ever get back to finishing the car.

How about some pictures of your 1913 pickup?

[ryanpad]

I do now have an acetylene line that’s up for grabs. It seems to be made to go under the radiator? Free to a good home.

If you were anywhere nearby I would be pleased to use that headlamp line! My 1913 speedster actually needs one. But I can make one easily enough if I can ever get back to finishing the car.

How about some pictures of your 1913 pickup?
[/quote]
I’m in San Diego

[Wayne Sheldon]

Looks like a nice T pickup!

[ryanpad]

Looks like a nice T pickup!

I’m working kinda front to back so I haven’t done (re-done) the bed yet.