Wheel Spoke Length

[wmscottsutherland]

I tried searching but could not find anything. That does not mean I searched for the term or terms that should be used.

I need help trying to determine the correct spoke size for some wheels I am trying to rebuild.

The measurements I get from the wheel seem to be incorrect. These are demountable wheels and the rims are 30x1/2. The one measurement I know is correct is the 1/2" tenon.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Scott

[Steve Jelf]

https://www.modeltford.com/item/2800HS-HY.aspx

https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG108.html

[wmscottsutherland]

Thanks Mr. Jelf. I have your press already book marked. That's why I wanted ted find the spoke so I could build the press and use it.

I knew you would have the answer.

[Allan]

I believe the Lang's listing Steve posted is somewhat misleading. Kelsey and Hayes did not merge until after T production ended, so in the T world the two brands of wheels are different. Hayes wheel felloes have depressions to accommodate the foot on the rim lugs. Some other felloes have cut outs to allow Hayes rims to fit. For wheels with fixed lugs like most US production, I believe the spoke length is the same, but tenon diameters may differ.

The length of spoke differs on the wheels having loose lug type rims. The felloes on our Canadian sourced Kelsey loose lug wheels are not as deep in cross section as fixed lug rims, so they require a longer spokes.

You need to know exactly what wheels you have before ordering, and it may be prudent to ascertain that all four wheels are the same.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

[Steve Jelf]

As usual, Allan is correct. Kelsey and Hayes were separate companies until the end of Model T production.

[wmscottsutherland]

So far this has been the easiest part of this adventure. I tested the press and it worked flawlessly. I've already taken the wheel apart to varnish the spokes and finish painting the rims.

Today was a fun day.

[Allan]

Your photo shows the outer plate positioned with the bolt hols being drilled through the spokes rather than between them. The hub should be set that way and the plate follows suit. Or was the photo just staged for our viewing? Nice work with the rebuild.

Allan from down under.

[Allan]

Correction! That is the hub that is wrongly aligned. My mistake.

Allan from down under.

[wmscottsutherland]

That was just a test. No holes drilled yet.

I did not know the holes are supposed to be where the spokes join so thanks for that.

Any other advice is greatly appreciated.

[Altair]

The spoke length for any size wheel firstly depends on the diameter of the rim. The rim must be measured on the inside with a running ruler, the diameter is critical as all the other measurements rely on that measure. For example a 30 X 3 1/2 rim is 69 51/64. From that measure you can determine the diameter which will intern give you your spoke length. You will have to find the math tables. I made all my wheels with just the open rims. There are running rulers available, I made my own using a pizza cutter and dividing it in to 1/16 graduations. When measuring the felloe you have to measure it on the curve, the pencil just thickness is critical, a pencil thickness error can add up to 1/8 inch over 12 spokes. My first 3 or 4 wheels were full of errors just a collection of pencil thicknesses. Redoing a wheel to copy from is somewhat different than from scratch.

[Allan]

Do not confuse rims with felloes. On our Canadian sourced cars, demountable 30" rims were fitted with loose lugs until well into 1925 production, when the fixed lug rims used more commonly in the US were introduced. They Canadian wheels were made by Kelsey in Windsor.
The internal diameter of the loose lug felloes is greater, so they need the longer spokes. On the fixed lug wheels, the felloe is deeper, so they require the shorter spokes.
Allan from down under.

[Altair]

The felloe does not affect the overall length of the spoke, the tenon goes through the felloe and just touches the rim. When measuring the felloe I was referring to the center of each spoke hole to be drilled, it is an odd distance like 5" and 48/64, this must be measured on the curve. The felloe can be any thickness you want, it doesn't affect the length of the spoke, just the tenon.

[Luxford]

David,
Not all of the felloes are the same.
I don't think you understood Allan about felloe differences. The rims are always the same for the tire size, the hub was always the same diameter but the felloe can vary in it's cross section which makes the spoke length change.
Here is a quick sketch which should explain what Allan was mentioning.
The length of the spoke fron the end against the hub to the face of the inside of the felloe can be longer or shorter depending on the felloe involved.

[wmscottsutherland]

Seems to me if a spoke on one side of the wheel is one length and on the other side needs to be longer or shorter the rim is out of round.

Scott

[Scott_Conger]

Amazing how little communication has been accomplished considering the amount of typing that has occurred...

[Allan]

Scott, the rim is that to which the tyre is fitted. A felloe is the steel piece to which the rim an tyre is mounted. Unless the felloe has been severely bent, a small amount of out-of-round will be corrected when the new spokes are pressed into place.
Allan from down under.

[wmscottsutherland]

Allan,

Thanks. A couple of years into this stuff so I'm always learning. Thanks for the additional help and its make much morse sense. I'm a rim tire guy from the biking world.

Thanks again,

Scott