Cotton or Kevlar

[Reno Speedster]

Ok, here comes the can of worms…. I am going to put new linings on the bands for my 26 speedster and it sounds like I will be getting into the bands on my 22 as well. I have full sets of Kevlar and good cotton bands for both. I like the longevity of the Kevlar, but I also like the lowered risk of transmission damage from the cotton. Anyone running cotton bands? How much trouble are they?

[speedytinc]

The problems with Kevlar are all operator/installer error.
I have not run cotton for decades, so I cant answer that question.
I have installed many sets of scandia bands for newbie T owners & have not heard of quick wear & replacement.
If you have any trepidation's/concerns running kevlar, definitely go with other.

[Mike Silbert]

Here is my setup and how I got there - I run both Cotton and Kevlar.
When my '26 touring was setup 15 years ago I installed a full set of cotton bands.
I wanted the forgiving feature of them and had them on hand (already paid for).
I run no extra brakes or power adders on this car.
After about 5 years of driving and a long list of student drivers, while on the 2018 MTFCI tour (Cranberry Township - Pittsburg Pa) I burnt out the brake band mid tour and needed to fix it.
The bands in that car are not treated with the care and respect they should get sometimes.
It was called History, Hills, and Automobiles for a reason. It was in the Appalachian Mountains giving it lots of hills.

I drove it back to the hotel rather than be towed in, that was less than fun.
Langs provided tour support that year and only had Kevlar on hand.
So using my friends trailer hitch ball as an anvil I replaced it that night.
It was especially fun breaking in the new brake band the next day while on tour in the mountains.

That set of mismatched bands is still in the car in spite of many more student drivers, 3 more MTFCI tours with a full passenger load, many local tours plus countless trips and car shows. That car is only loaded on a trailer if the start location is more than 40 miles away, sometimes.
Every once in a while they get a little adjustment, but they keep on going.

The reasons you give for the band types both good and bad are true, but cotton bands can provide good service if you decide to use them.
Treating bands like garbage (not driving or setting them up like you should) will destroy them no matter what material you choose!
This is my real life practical experience.
Mike

[Kevin Pharis]

I usually drive my speedster like I stole it. High revs at take off, and often near 4k rpm before shifting out of low. Scandinavia linings are my weak point, but at least they are easy to change! Have been collecting NOS bands for a while, and there is definitely a difference between the generations. The newer made bands go in reverse, and the older (better) go in low

[John kuehn]

It’s all in how you treat them. Whether it’s cotton or Kevlar.
And when you think that since you’ve got the new Kevlars which hardly wear that’s when you might start to disregard your driving habits in a Model T.
This subject has always gone back and forth. I have Kevlar in my 24 Coupe and cotton in my 19 Runabout and 21 Touring. To me the cotton bands seem to have a smother feel than the Kevlars. I still believe it’s all in how you treat the bands Kevlar or Cotton.

I do believe that the original Scandinavia bands and other brands that were woven really well will last much longer than the newer cotton bands.

Locally there was a T owner years ago who built a round track car in the 40’-50’s that experimented with automatic transmission bands in his T transmission. He had good luck with them too.

[KWTownsend]

I drove with cotton for my first 5-10 years and replaced lining 2 or 3 times. I was a newbie...

Then used "hard" lining that chattered like crazy, but was super responsive. It was Asbestos, or Caterpillar lining... something really hard that was bonded to the band, for about 5 years until I had a catastrophic failure with a reverse drum.

After rebuilding the transmission I put in Kevlar bands. That was about 30 years ago. All my cars have Kevlar lining in them now.

They take a little while to get dialed in but from then on, everything is good. If you drive with Kevlar transmission lining the same way as with cotton transmission lining, your car will be faithful for decades. If you "drive it like you stole it" YMMV...

: ^ )

Keith

[JohnH]

I've used cotton for the 23 years of my T ownership. First lot of linings I used were made by Mark Automotive, which unfortunately have not been available for around 20 years or more. I learned to drive on those linings and got very good life out of them. Since then, I've used the Scandinavian linings made by Cantex and got similarly good life out of them, though maybe only about 80% as much. Typically, I get about 6 to 8 years out of the low and brake linings. Since cotton linings of any type appear to be no longer made, once my present stock is used up I'll consider other things; probably a bonded lining. The golden rule is to avoid slipping the bands. Press the pedal down firmly and quickly. I've seen a set of cotton linings worn out after one trip because of improper driving.

[Loftfield]

Here you are with a great chance for an experiment. Put cotton on one car and kevlar on the other, then see which you prefer. remember that the '26 has a wider brake band so should were more slowly, otherwise a great opportunity to compare.

[love2T's]

The problems with Kevlar are all operator/installer error.
I have not run cotton for decades, so I cant answer that question.
I have installed many sets of scandia bands for newbie T owners & have not heard of quick wear & replacement.
If you have any trepidation's/concerns running kevlar, definitely go with other.

You hit the nail on the head. I've posted the same type of comment many times before as band choice is as hot a topic as ignitions and oil! I drive the T LIKE A T and not like a race car and keep the adjustment at jist under being what some would say as "loose". They grab smooth, work fine, and dont chatter either. Just learn how to use Kevlars is all it takes. I habe no experience with cotton only except for reading that they have a shorter lifespan. Pick your battles I say.

[Art M]

Cotton linings do require occasional adjustment. At oil changes I make adjustments to my cotton bands if necessary. In order to clean the oil screen, the transmission inspection cover must be removed. This allows easy access to the band adjustments. I change oil every 500 miles.

The low band requires tightening by a half turn about every 1000 miles. The brake band requires slightly less than this. The reverse band, hardly ever. I am projecting that my cotton linings will last 15,000 to 20,000 miles. Near this point, I might switch the low and reverse bands in order to extend the life. Keep in mind that the supply of cotton linings is rapidly becoming extinct so I want to get the maximum use.

In conclusion to this, maintenance of the band adjustments requires very little effort or time.

I have never driven a car with Kevlar bands, but I have heard some experienced drivers tell me that the cotton lining is smoother. And lot of owners tell me they see no difference in the smoothness. I am hoping that someone offers me a chance to drive their car with Kevlar's.

Art Mirtes

[Art M]

Cotton linings do require occasional adjustment. At oil changes I make adjustments to my cotton bands if necessary. In order to clean the oil screen, the transmission inspection cover must be removed. This allows easy access to the band adjustments. I change oil every 500 miles.

The low band requires tightening by a half turn about every 1000 miles. The brake band requires slightly less than this. The reverse band, hardly ever. I am projecting that my cotton linings will last 15,000 to 20,000 miles. Near this point, I might switch the low and reverse bands in order to extend the life. Keep in mind that the supply of cotton linings is rapidly becoming extinct so I want to get the maximum use.

In conclusion to this, maintenance of the band adjustments requires very little effort or time.

I have never driven a car with Kevlar bands, but I have heard some experienced drivers tell me that the cotton lining is smoother. And lot of owners tell me they see no difference in the smoothness. I am hoping that someone offers me a chance to drive their car with Kevlar's.

Art Mirtes

[John kuehn]

There is still interest in cotton band linings for Model T transmissions. Like other Model T parts finding a company that has the weaving machinery to make them as the older originals were like Scandanivia, Sears, Wards and a few others isn’t easy to do because of being able to make a decent profit. Maybe one day.

[Reno Speedster]

Thanks for the information. I happen to have two full sets of old narrow cotton bands and a single wide brake band all in good shape (wards maybe?). On the 26, I am using a Muncie aux with a reverse, so I have removed the reverse pedal (no reverse band). I think I will try the cotton in it.

I have been driving the 22 with Kevlar for about 4 years without trouble until the reverse stopped working. My only concern is proper adjustment. We will see what is going on in the 22 transmission and decide about what to use in it then.

[Les Schubert]

Kevlar for the brake. Cotton for reverse. Either for low gear